Breakdown of Sheila's drowsiness in days/hours leading to massacre.

[Adam]

Bamber would have done a simple pulse check. He then went upstairs to Shelia so was not concerned about Nevill.

For me in the state Nevill was in a visual would have been enough.

Pulse checks are unreliable. Me and Hardyboy have provided sources.

Nothing wrong with using another method.

If Bamber did not inflict the burn marks as torture or to check for signs of life, why did he do it?

[snow66!]

Ive not ruled the aga out I just believe it wouldn't overturn the convictions when other evidence such as JM and more importantly the blood evidence remains unchallenged.

OK, thanks, ILB!

[Adam]

Please stop trying to goad. Nothing has been ruled out.

You torture an alive person. For hours or days. Sometimes to extract information.

Burning a dead/knocked out person 3 times is not torture.

[Adam]

I really cant understand why everyone is so unwilling to accept that the Aga may well have caused the burns to Nevills back and instead pursue more sinister and far fetched explanations.

You can't burn your back lying on a cold aga door.

All the raid team & police WS's say Nevill was on the coal scuttle. The reason an officer outside said 'woman in the kitchen' was because she could not see his face.

The CCRC have dismissed this but it was good publicity at the time.

[Adam]

My recollection is -

Me
Steve
NGB
Hardyboy
Jane
Scipio
Susan
David

Believe the burn marks were to check for signs of life.

----------

Snow thinks the aga caused the burns.

Zozo said they are not burns but did not give an alternative suggestion.

CC says they are not burns. Has suggested they are metal screws or old war wounds.

[ILB]

My recollection is -

Me
Steve
NGB
Hardyboy
Jane
Scipio
Susan
David

----------

Believe the burn marks were to check for signs of life.

Snow thinks the aga caused the burns.

Zozo said they are not burns but did not give an alternative suggestion.

CC says they are not burns. Has suggested they are metal screws or old war wounds.

I know you would do this.

Quite why quoting a small number of people to try and validate your argument to make it stronger defeats me.

[ILB]

You torture an alive person. For hours or days. Sometimes to extract information.

Burning a dead/knocked out person 3 times is not torture.

It is degrading someone though who has effectivley ran and dictated your life for 24 years.

[Adam]

It is degrading someone though who has effectivley ran and dictated your life for 24 years.

Degrading? Nevill's head was in a coal scuttle with his pyjama trousers down.

[snow66!]

Vanezis trial evidence is in the archive here, Jonathan, he talks about the marks.
I think it was knight who gave evidence for the defence, he thought they may be caused by an object striking Nevills back, and not burns at all, I think!
Maybe someone else can help?
I'll take a look in the books.

Yes, knights evidence is in the archive here too, Jonathan, he thinks that Nevill was proded and the skin was taken off.
Cant find much info about the marks in any of the books.

[Hardy Boy]

Yes, knights evidence is in the archive here too, Jonathan, he thinks that Nevill was proded and the skin was taken off.
Cant find much info about the marks in any of the books.

Hi Snow, I tend to agree with what knight say’s,  elderly people bruise really easily as the person ages the skin becomes thinner, we’ve all seen how easy elder people bruise, if you think about where the marks were on Neville’s back aligned with his spine,  this area would offer no cushioning so forceful prodding could cause those bruises,  and maybe that’s why his head landed in the coal Scuttle as he was prodded/pushed from behind.  Maybe he was prodding hard from behind using this as a method to check for life?  I think once his head went forward uncontrollably into the Coal Scuttle,  Bamber would have know that Neville was dead?

[ILB]

Degrading? Nevill's head was in a coal scuttle with his pyjama trousers down.

All locked in one mans psyche.

We will never know what was going through that guys head that night and even on the off chance he ever admitted culpability he would probably offer a sanitized version of events.

[ILB]

He may well have forgotten himself to be honest, what with years as a CAT A and living a pretence.

[Hardy Boy]

He may well have forgotten himself to be honest, what with years as a CAT A and living a pretence.

I honestly don’t know how he’s coped ILB, he really must be mentally strong, chasing a MOJ must be the only positive thing to focus on.  The only way I’d manage if they let me do three hours cycling a day and bike maintenance after. 

[Hardy Boy]

My recollection is -

Me
Steve
NGB
Hardyboy
Jane
Scipio
Susan
David

Believe the burn marks were to check for signs of life.

----------

Snow thinks the aga caused the burns.

Zozo said they are not burns but did not give an alternative suggestion.

CC says they are not burns. Has suggested they are metal screws or old war wounds.

I definitely think the prodding with the rifle from behind caused Neville to fall forward with his head and into the coal scuttle,  whether it was burning or prodding/pushing him from behind,  it fits perfect with someone prodding from behind to see if the person was still alive and the way he falls forward.

A weak or fading pulse wouldn’t be definite and would be hard to find anyway,  prodding and pushing forward his body from behind would be more definite, especially if there was no movement from Neville after hitting his head in the coal Scuttle. He might have tried to push him onto the floor to see if there was any reaction, not realising the coal Scuttle would break the fall?

[Jonathan]

I honestly don’t know how he’s coped ILB, he really must be mentally strong, chasing a MOJ must be the only positive thing to focus on.  The only way I’d manage if they let me do three hours cycling a day and bike maintenance after.

He has lady friends visiting him doesn't he? I doubt I'd get any if I was in prison