Breakdown of Sheila's drowsiness in days/hours leading to massacre.

[Jane]

Well its quite simple, Jane, if the Aga burned Nevills back I am trying to determine just when this happened, and I am hoping that the pathology reports may help. ie., can it be proven that any of Nevills injuries occurred several hours before he died.
If so, it may point to an injured Nevill lying against the Aga hours before he was shot and killed.
I think the CT should request all of Nevills medical reports and x-rays for an expert to examine, they should examine every possibility and scenario, not just Nevill being moved from the Aga to the chair/scuttle by the police after entry! What the heck do they have to lose?

So having previously had his face smashed beyond recognition, one assumes there to have been copious blood loss, and as blood doesn't run upwards, his neck and pyjama jacket are the places most likely to have been soaked. I don't recall such being so.
If we look at what you suggest, IF he'd been moved from Aga to chair, he must have been alive because of the blood flow around/down the coal skuttle. Do you think they'd have left him to die like that? It's already been suggested that police shot June and Sheila.

[snow66!]

So having previously had his face smashed beyond recognition, one assumes there to have been copious blood loss, and as blood doesn't run upwards, his neck and pyjama jacket are the places most likely to have been soaked. I don't recall such being so.
If we look at what you suggest, IF he'd been moved from Aga to chair, he must have been alive because of the blood flow around/down the coal skuttle. Do you think they'd have left him to die like that? It's already been suggested that police shot June and Sheila.

It was the two bullets to the jaw that disfiguered Nevills face and caused bleeding, Jane!
But!  the initial beating may have indeed been when Nevill received most of his other facial injuries, as well as the fractured skull.
Now here's the thing, when I had my nose broken it didn't bleed much at all apart from literally a few drops, nothing more, but it was knocked over to one side. And here's the funny thing, it almost set in that position right away! I went to the local hospital that night and the nurse took hold of it and it was set fast, so she said to go to my GP and see about it, but I never did, and the next day I had two black eyes!
Talking of bleeding, there was another time when I shot a nail through my finger with a nail gun, and again there was no blood loss! The nail went in at one side and out the other, sealing up each side instantaneously. I had to go to A&E with that one, and a doctor pulled it out with a pliers, only then did the finger bleed quite a bit.
Of course bullet wounds never seal themself, but I did read that its often better to leave a knife or other sharp object insitu for fear of further bleeding and damage removing it.
Anyway, the point is, from experience I believe that Nevill could have sustained quite serious head and facial injuries with minimal blood loss, so blood soaked pyjamas were not inevitable, Jane!
And yes, I believe that Nevill was alive while lying against the Aga with no bullet wounds at that time and got up again by himself before ending up on the chair/scuttle after being shot!

[Steve_uk]

It was the two bullets to the jaw that disfiguered Nevills face and caused bleeding, Jane!
But!  the initial beating may have indeed been when Nevill received most of his other facial injuries, as well as the fractured skull.
Now here's the thing, when I had my nose broken it didn't bleed much at all apart from literally a few drops, nothing more, but it was knocked over to one side. And here's the funny thing, it almost set in that position right away! I went to the local hospital that night and the nurse took hold of it and it was set fast, so she said to go to my GP and see about it, but I never did, and the next day I had two black eyes!
Talking of bleeding, there was another time when I shot a nail through my finger with a nail gun, and again there was no blood loss! The nail went in at one side and out the other, sealing up each side instantaneously. I had to go to A&E with that one, and a doctor pulled it out with a pliers, only then did the finger bleed quite a bit.
Of course bullet wounds never seal themself, but I did read that its often better to leave a knife or other sharp object insitu for fear of further bleeding and damage removing it.
Anyway, the point is, from experience I believe that Nevill could have sustained quite serious head and facial injuries with minimal blood loss, so blood soaked pyjamas were not inevitable, Jane!
And yes, I believe that Nevill was alive while lying against the Aga with no bullet wounds at that time and got up again by himself before ending up on the chair/scuttle after being shot!

I'm squeamish at the best of times. I do hope you're taking better care of yourself these days.

[snow66!]

I'm squeamish at the best of times. I do hope you're taking better care of yourself these days.

Ha ha, dont worry Steve, both injuries were accidental! my nose wasn't broken with a fist, i'm not a trouble maker.
But!! I have needed two new hips in recent years! a great success though, all pain is gone.
Are you in reasonable health, Steve?

[Jane]

It was the two bullets to the jaw that disfiguered Nevills face and caused bleeding, Jane!
But!  the initial beating may have indeed been when Nevill received most of his other facial injuries, as well as the fractured skull.
Now here's the thing, when I had my nose broken it didn't bleed much at all apart from literally a few drops, nothing more, but it was knocked over to one side. And here's the funny thing, it almost set in that position right away! I went to the local hospital that night and the nurse took hold of it and it was set fast, so she said to go to my GP and see about it, but I never did, and the next day I had two black eyes!
Talking of bleeding, there was another time when I shot a nail through my finger with a nail gun, and again there was no blood loss! The nail went in at one side and out the other, sealing up each side instantaneously. I had to go to A&E with that one, and a doctor pulled it out with a pliers, only then did the finger bleed quite a bit.
Of course bullet wounds never seal themself, but I did read that its often better to leave a knife or other sharp object insitu for fear of further bleeding and damage removing it.
Anyway, the point is, from experience I believe that Nevill could have sustained quite serious head and facial injuries with minimal blood loss, so blood soaked pyjamas were not inevitable, Jane!
And yes, I believe that Nevill was alive while lying against the Aga with no bullet wounds at that time and got up again by himself before ending up on the chair/scuttle after being shot!

I'll counter that! When my nose was broken, it bled for England!. I can confirm that knives are best left in situ to prevent bleeding out. I was fully aware that he'd sustained serious facial/maxilla wounds, ie his jaw bone was smashed/removed? I doubt that to have been a bloodless wound, the evidence of which would have been on his pyjamas. A blow to the head -hard enough to knock him out/cause concussion/fracture his skull- may well have contributed to his black eyes.

[Steve_uk]

Ha ha, dont worry Steve, both injuries were accidental! my nose wasn't broken with a fist, i'm not a trouble maker.
But!! I have needed two new hips in recent years! a great success though, all pain is gone.
Are you in reasonable health, Steve?

Yes, for my age. I might need root canal in the next few weeks, but apart from that I'm perfectly fit and healthy.

[snow66!]

I'll counter that! When my nose was broken, it bled for England!. I can confirm that knives are best left in situ to prevent bleeding out. I was fully aware that he'd sustained serious facial/maxilla wounds, ie his jaw bone was smashed/removed? I doubt that to have been a bloodless wound, the evidence of which would have been on his pyjamas. A blow to the head -hard enough to knock him out/cause concussion/fracture his skull- may well have contributed to his black eyes.

Have you really had a broken nose, Jane, if so, I trust it was also accidental?
Regarding the two face shots, I thought I had made it clear that I believe Nevill had sustained no gun shot wounds while lying against the Aga! so again, no bleeding onto the pyjamas!

[Steve_uk]

Did we ever get to the bottom of what made the burn marks on Nevill's back? Until something definitive is established such as an electronic cattle prod, a poker or one of Sheila's cigars the Aga knob theory will continue to be advanced.

[ILB]

Did we ever get to the bottom of what made the burn marks on Nevill's back? Until something definitive is established such as an electronic cattle prod, a poker or one of Sheila's cigars the Aga knob theory will continue to be advanced.

For me they were not made from Jeremy Bamber doing a sign of life check.

[snow66!]

Yes, for my age. I might need root canal in the next few weeks, but apart from that I'm perfectly fit and healthy.

Good good, Steve!
Hopefully you will have a long and happy retirement when it comes, once you decide where to settle down that is!

[Adam]

For me they were not made from Jeremy Bamber doing a sign of life check.

After inflicting the above injuries & shooting him 4-8 times, burning his back 3 times as torture is strange. Nevill was either unconcious or dead.

Burning his back 3 times as torture is not exactly Gerald Butler in Law Abiding Citizen.

[ILB]

After inflicting the above injuries & shooting him 4-8 times, burning his back 3 times as torture is strange. Nevill was either unconcious or dead.

Burning his back 3 times as torture is not exactly Gerald Butler in Law Abiding Citizen.

A simple pulse check suffices.

Why not do a check on June Nicholas and Daniel?

There is nothing concrete pointing to those burns been inflicted 7.8.85

You know this.

[ILB]

After inflicting the above injuries & shooting him 4-8 times, burning his back 3 times as torture is strange. Nevill was either unconcious or dead.

Jeremy is convicted of murdering 5 family members in cold blood after working an exhausting 14  hour shift.

We've no idea of the dynamic between JB and Nevill, evidence suggests they had a warm relation ship once upon a, time but Nevill was not just his adoptive father, he was his boss. And dictated to him.

[Adam]

A simple pulse check suffices.

Why not do a check on June Nicholas and Daniel?

There is nothing concrete pointing to those burns been inflicted 7.8.85

You know this.

A pulse check is an option. The evidence is he burnt his back to check for signs of life. He may have also done a pulse check.

Do you think he stopped his staging to burn an unconcious or dead Nevill 3 times as torture? He had just shot him 4-8 times and inflicted multiple horrific injuries to him.

[ILB]

A pulse check is an option. The evidence is he burnt his back to check for signs of life. He may have also done a pulse check.

Do you think he stopped his staging to burn an unconcious or dead Nevill 3 times as torture? He had just shot him 4-8 times and inflicted multiple horrific injuries to him.

The evidence is three circular burns were discovered on Nevill Bambers back.

Vanesziz said he wasn't sure when they had occured.