Author Topic: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.  (Read 4573 times)

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Online ILB

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2025, 04:26:PM »
Jean Rowe was just one of several BT operators. JR possibly had no knowledge of the 999 call at the time it was made. Similarly, Milbank was one of a team in the HQ Information Room. There were probably ten incoming lines and maybe 6-8 staff, some radio dispatchers, some answering telephones. It was just pot luck that Milbank received the 999 call.

With Milibank now deceased the CCRC can't verify anything.
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Offline Roch

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2025, 05:28:PM »
With Milibank now deceased the CCRC can't verify anything.

Unless any other calls operators remember what happened.

Offline Adam

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2025, 05:42:PM »
The CCRC have gone by the WS's of Burrell, Jean Rowe & others in rejecting this ground. 

This may include Milbank's WS. Which will just confirm he monitored the open line from 6.09am. 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2025, 05:47:PM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2025, 05:47:PM »
You have the two extremes -

Nevill also not dialling 999 & spending 10 minutes talking to the police. Because two logs filled in by two different people differ!

Sheila dialling 999 then not saying anything. Because BT opened the engaged WHF line & an officer monitored the open line from 6.09am.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2025, 06:19:PM »
Maybe CC taught Sheila, in the event of an emergency, dial 999.

Nevill and Jeremy sure didn't!
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Offline snow66!

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2025, 06:35:PM »
Jean Rowe was just one of several BT operators. JR possibly had no knowledge of the 999 call at the time it was made. Similarly, Milbank was one of a team in the HQ Information Room. There were probably ten incoming lines and maybe 6-8 staff, some radio dispatchers, some answering telephones. It was just pot luck that Milbank received the 999 call.
Thanks, Bill.
Its just a pity that Heidi didn't get Milbank to clarify all this, although he may have thought it so obvious what happened that he didn't need to elaborate too much?
BUT! It was still up to Heidi to get Milbank to make it crystal clear what happened and why he was so sure that the 6.09 call was made by someone inside WHF!

Online ILB

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2025, 09:57:PM »
Unless any other calls operators remember what happened.

Many may be deceased by now. If not all.

I was 17 when this happened, I'll be 58 come July when you look at it like wow.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2025, 09:58:PM by ILB »
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Offline BarefootDanC

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2025, 10:26:PM »
It's understandable though Snow it was 40 years ago. What I find unforgivable is the CCRC sent EP round to interview Milbank.

I look at quite a few cases involving the Innocence project in the US, the difference between them and the CCRC is massive they leave no stone unturned! In one case with six dodgy witnesses they personally went round and coaxed the truth out of them.

Do you think Milbank would have told the truth to the CCRC but not to Essex Police?

Do the CCRC actually have the power to interview police officers directly?

Offline Adam

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2025, 11:51:PM »
Jeremy calling Julie.

Nevill calling Jeremy.

Jeremy calling Julie.

Nevill calling Chelmsford Police.

Jeremy calling Chelmsford Police.

Jeremy calling Julie.

Sheila calling 999.

----------

Two of these have been rejected by the CCRC but created good publicity.

One EP did not believe happened & charged him.

The other 4 have done him no favours.
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Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2025, 05:09:AM »
Thanks, Bill.
Its just a pity that Heidi didn't get Milbank to clarify all this, although he may have thought it so obvious what happened that he didn't need to elaborate too much?
BUT! It was still up to Heidi to get Milbank to make it crystal clear what happened and why he was so sure that the 6.09 call was made by someone inside WHF!
I have to disagree. It was entirely the responsibility of the CCRC to approach Milbank as soon as the information was available. Heidi Blake only had the responsibility, as a journalist, to obtain sufficient material for a story to be generated and she managed to get Milbank to confirm that there was a 999 call and I guess that she was unaware of the some follow up questions that ideally she would have asked. It doesn't help that he lied throughout their conversation.

However, the CCRC has no excuse as many people immediately asked them to see Milbank and pointed out how important his evidence was. The CCRC were too scared of the implications and bottled it.
The CCRC has dismissed JB’s submissions for over 30 years, often with piss-taking sarcasm; they are now unwilling to admit that they were wrong all along.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2025, 09:57:AM by Bill Robertson »

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2025, 12:05:PM »
Bubo does this every time, it always ends with false/faked lied just because he dislikes what it proves.  A witness statement is a legal document, he throws these accusations about like confetti, to either shut down debate or try to take control of a lost cause,   Without evidence, the idea that police altered/ or Jean Rowe gave a false statement  is a conspiracy theory, not a fact that it happened.

Her signed statement matches Burrell’s, it matches the GPO procedures of the time and it matches what the Police logs reported, spotting word inconsistency by different people made 40 years ago is not proof, again the amount of cover up needed you would have to hope everyone kept it secret,  and hide a manufactured claimed about a 9s call 50 years back.

Let me start by saying that I do not believe for one minute JR and others faked their statements. This manipulation was orchestrated by Ainsley and others in order to remove exculpatory evidence and create other facts which would help the framing of JB.

I believe that JB was framed and I seek to source written and other photographic facts that call his conviction into question.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I believe his case to be a miscarriage of justice.

The narrative of this case has been reinforced time and time again by EP and multiple media sources. I have my own narrative based on what I accept is limited evidence but that is my prerogative.
 
I am afraid that HB will not entertain any suggestion of police malfeasance and at times uses some but not all of the evidence to try to undermine claims of innocence.

Quote.

Bubo does this every time, it always ends with false/faked lied just because he dislikes what it proves.  A witness statement is a legal document, he throws these accusations about like confetti, to either shut down debate or try to take control of a lost cause,   Without evidence, the idea that police altered/ or Jean Rowe gave a false statement  is a conspiracy theory, not a fact that it happened.

Her signed statement matches Burrell’s, it matches the GPO procedures of the time and it matches what the Police logs reported, spotting word inconsistency by different people made 40 years ago is not proof, again the amount of cover up needed you would have to hope everyone kept it secret,  and hide a manufactured claimed about a 9s call 50 years back.
end quote

I refer now to the information below.


If JR  was adamant that she could not interfere with the 999 system why does the log show that an operator (possibly JR) says that a direct link was set up to house with phone off the hook and refers to a 999 open line, not an ordinary open line. Why would she or any other operator do this if it was not allowed and had told the police this as part of a discussion minutes earlier.

It is aspects such as this that HB fails to address choosing only that part of the argument which fits his narrative.

It seems that there were others who thought it was a 999 call. Someone from the CA07 crew based at the scene refers to a 999 call. They must have been informed it was a 999 call by those in the information room. Those at the scene were not subject to any discussions or actions in the IR so they must have been passed information that a 999 call had been received and that a link had been created. Again, not a normal call or mention of a preexisting open line.

How might these inconsistencies be explained?

Why did JR state the police were still listening in when she left at 08.00am, when she was told to close the line at 07.48am?

Why did Millbank come forward in late 2024?

Here is a suggestion. Many asked why he waited all this time when the story first broke last year. I suggested it was because he knew he was dying. At a risk of repeating myself. Any one who knew the real truth and knew JB was 'Trussed up like a kipper' could not whistle blow. Not just they but the others would all be sacked and would loose their pensions. The whole of EP would be affected good and bad. Talks about combining Essex and Kent were in the news frequently during this period. Some redundancies particularly at higher levels would be inevitable. Today there is very close cooperation between the two forces. Might they have been merged?

At the end of his life he had nothing to loose.

Did you watch the channel 4 documentary. A journalist who thinks him guilty more or less said that they 'Stitched JB up like a kipper' because like him they believed him guilty.

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2025, 04:10:PM »
Let me start by saying that I do not believe for one minute JR and others faked their statements. This manipulation was orchestrated by Ainsley and others in order to remove exculpatory evidence and create other facts which would help the framing of JB.

I believe that JB was framed and I seek to source written and other photographic facts that call his conviction into question.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I believe his case to be a miscarriage of justice.

The narrative of this case has been reinforced time and time again by EP and multiple media sources. I have my own narrative based on what I accept is limited evidence but that is my prerogative.
 
I am afraid that HB will not entertain any suggestion of police malfeasance and at times uses some but not all of the evidence to try to undermine claims of innocence.

Quote.

Bubo does this every time, it always ends with false/faked lied just because he dislikes what it proves.  A witness statement is a legal document, he throws these accusations about like confetti, to either shut down debate or try to take control of a lost cause,   Without evidence, the idea that police altered/ or Jean Rowe gave a false statement  is a conspiracy theory, not a fact that it happened.

Her signed statement matches Burrell’s, it matches the GPO procedures of the time and it matches what the Police logs reported, spotting word inconsistency by different people made 40 years ago is not proof, again the amount of cover up needed you would have to hope everyone kept it secret,  and hide a manufactured claimed about a 9s call 50 years back.
end quote

I refer now to the information below.


If JR  was adamant that she could not interfere with the 999 system why does the log show that an operator (possibly JR) says that a direct link was set up to house with phone off the hook and refers to a 999 open line, not an ordinary open line. Why would she or any other operator do this if it was not allowed and had told the police this as part of a discussion minutes earlier.

It is aspects such as this that HB fails to address choosing only that part of the argument which fits his narrative.

It seems that there were others who thought it was a 999 call. Someone from the CA07 crew based at the scene refers to a 999 call. They must have been informed it was a 999 call by those in the information room. Those at the scene were not subject to any discussions or actions in the IR so they must have been passed information that a 999 call had been received and that a link had been created. Again, not a normal call or mention of a preexisting open line.

How might these inconsistencies be explained?

Why did JR state the police were still listening in when she left at 08.00am, when she was told to close the line at 07.48am?

Why did Millbank come forward in late 2024?

Here is a suggestion. Many asked why he waited all this time when the story first broke last year. I suggested it was because he knew he was dying. At a risk of repeating myself. Any one who knew the real truth and knew JB was 'Trussed up like a kipper' could not whistle blow. Not just they but the others would all be sacked and would loose their pensions. The whole of EP would be affected good and bad. Talks about combining Essex and Kent were in the news frequently during this period. Some redundancies particularly at higher levels would be inevitable. Today there is very close cooperation between the two forces. Might they have been merged?

At the end of his life he had nothing to loose.

Did you watch the channel 4 documentary. A journalist who thinks him guilty more or less said that they 'Stitched JB up like a kipper' because like him they believed him guilty.
Just sunning myself in Lanzarote BUBO, so quickly……. On Wednesday 7 August 1985 I was the Duty Sergeant in the Force
Information Roon at Police Headquarters, Chelmsford. At about 03.45 hours I became aware of the an incident in the
Tolleshunt D'Arcy area. At 03.56 I caused the Telecom Operator to check the line on a Maldon number 860209. This was done and I was told that the
telephone receiver was off its rest. At 05.55 I caused a second check to be made with the same result
accompanied by a report of a dog barking. At 06.09 hours this open line was linked up with our "999" call line
and was thereafter constantly monitored by Pc Millbank.

Inspector D Burrell.


Jean Rowe was asked to listen in ABOUT 5.50am, she did so and was asked to connect the two lines which she eventually did,  the police could THEN monitor it from police HQ,  Jean Rowe the OPERATOR  played no further part AFTER SHE CONNECTED THE TWO LINES.

End game I’m afraid, but good luck with your evidence,  maybe send the same evidence that you have that Vanezis lied, the raid team lied when they shot June and moved Neville,  Jean Rowe signed a fabricated statement Along with Burrell. Your well known for ending any conversation with the likes be….It’s Fabricated/Faked or they lied! 


As far as I’m aware,  A whistleblower steps forward voluntarily with evidence.
Millbank didn’t, Heidi Blake approached him out the blue,  that makes HIM sourced in terms of coming forward,  he answered a call that’s all.     Maybe your first step in uncovering justice you say for Bamber, contact Heidi Blake/ New Yorker to release the full uncut/unedited Audio and then contact Jean Rowe (if she’s still with us) or Inspector Burrell to tell them that their Statements were altered or faked and their signature was attributed them?   Good luck anyway 👍

Looks like everyone new about the cover up but was afraid to speak out because talks of Essex Police and Kent police amalgamation and afraid if they did there might be redundancies, loss of pension. What a load of Bollocks you do talk and this last post of yours proves it……Conspiracy theorists don’t build cases — they throw in every loose scrap and hope something sticks.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2025, 06:12:PM by Hardy Boy »

Offline snow66!

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2025, 05:07:PM »
I have to disagree. It was entirely the responsibility of the CCRC to approach Milbank as soon as the information was available. Heidi Blake only had the responsibility, as a journalist, to obtain sufficient material for a story to be generated and she managed to get Milbank to confirm that there was a 999 call and I guess that she was unaware of the some follow up questions that ideally she would have asked. It doesn't help that he lied throughout their conversation.

However, the CCRC has no excuse as many people immediately asked them to see Milbank and pointed out how important his evidence was. The CCRC were too scared of the implications and bottled it.
The CCRC has dismissed JB’s submissions for over 30 years, often with piss-taking sarcasm; they are now unwilling to admit that they were wrong all along.
Thanks, Bill, understood!
Obviously I have no idea what went on behind the scenes regarding Heidi, Milbank, the CT and the CCRC.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2025, 05:21:PM by snow66! »

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2025, 07:19:PM »
Just sunning myself in Lanzarote BUBO, so quickly……. On Wednesday 7 August 1985 I was the Duty Sergeant in the Force
Information Roon at Police Headquarters, Chelmsford. At about 03.45 hours I became aware of the an incident in the
Tolleshunt D'Arcy area. At 03.56 I caused the Telecom Operator to check the line on a Maldon number 860209. This was done and I was told that the
telephone receiver was off its rest. At 05.55 I caused a second check to be made with the same result
accompanied by a report of a dog barking. At 06.09 hours this open line was linked up with our "999" call line
and was thereafter constantly monitored by Pc Millbank.

Inspector D Burrell.


Jean Rowe was asked to listen in ABOUT 5.50am, she did so and was asked to connect the two lines which she eventually did,  the police could THEN monitor it from police HQ,  Jean Rowe the OPERATOR  played no further part AFTER SHE CONNECTED THE TWO LINES.

End game I’m afraid, but good luck with your evidence,  maybe send the same evidence that you have that Vanezis lied, the raid team lied when they shot June and moved Neville,  Jean Rowe signed a fabricated statement Along with Burrell. Your well known for ending any conversation with the likes be….It’s Fabricated/Faked or they lied! 


As far as I’m aware,  A whistleblower steps forward voluntarily with evidence.
Millbank didn’t, Heidi Blake approached him out the blue,  that makes HIM sourced in terms of coming forward,  he answered a call that’s all.     Maybe your first step in uncovering justice you say for Bamber, contact Heidi Blake/ New Yorker to release the full uncut/unedited Audio and then contact Jean Rowe (if she’s still with us) or Inspector Burrell to tell them that their Statements were altered or faked and their signature was attributed them?   Good luck anyway 👍

Looks like everyone new about the cover up but was afraid to speak out because talks of Essex Police and Kent police amalgamation and afraid if they did there might be redundancies, loss of pension. What a load of Bollocks you do talk and this last post of yours proves it……Conspiracy theorists don’t build cases — they throw in every loose scrap and hope something sticks.

Well, Well, Well  I believe the Burrell note was constructed to suggest that the 999 call never happened and the call was as a result of connecting an abandoned line to the 999 system.

This is despite JR saying operators were not allowed to carry out such an action and yourself saying that it was connected to the HQIR phone so as not to ‘clog’ up the system.

He says he was the duty sergeant.

Bonnett and West had been dealing with this since 03.26am.

Why did the duty sergeant not get involved with this sooner. By 03.45 cars had been despatched.

How did he know the number for WHF?

West had the number Bonnett did not. The number was added to his log later by someone whose writing sloped to the right whereas Bonnett’s sloped to the left. Whoever added this also had a quirk of striking a line through zeros which was not a feature of Bonnett’s writing as other parts of the log show.

The only way he could have obtained this number was by talking to West. If he spoke to West he would know that the line had already been primed for a check at 03.42am so there would be no need for another check at 03.56am. What is more the Bonnett log says the result of the check was given at 03.56 (allowing for broken timing on log) so why would he be asking for another check at the exact same timing.

Bonnett would know West had or was going to ask for a line check

Some duty sergeant who does not know what his team was doing.

However, his efforts were rewarded because by 13/09/85 (5 weeks later) he is now an Inspector.

Sorry HB the Burrell log/memo/statement has been constructed as I say in my opening remarks.
 
Do not get too much sun it might addle your brain. Am visiting Tenerife next week.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2025, 08:16:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Time breakdown and sources regarding 6.09am.
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2025, 07:40:PM »
Well, Well, Well  I believe the Burrell note was constructed to suggest that the 999 call never happened and the call was as a result of connecting an abandoned line to the 999 system.

This is despite JR saying operators were not allowed to carry out such an action and yourself saying that it was connected to the HQIR phone so as not to ‘clog’ up the system.

He says he was the duty sergeant.

Bonnett and West had been dealing with this since 03.26am.

Why did the duty sergeant not get involved with this sooner. By 03.45 cars had been despatched.

How did he know the number for WHF?

West had the number Bonnett did not. The number was added to his log later by someone whose writing sloped to the right whereas Bonnett’s sloped to the left. Whoever added this also had a quirk of striking a line through zeros which was not a feature of Bonnett’s writing as other parts of the log show.

The only way he could have obtained this number was by talking to West. If he spoke to West he would know that the line had already been primed for a check at 03.42am so there would be no need for another check at 03.56am. What is more the Bonnett log says the result of the check was given at 03.56 (allowing for broken timing on log) so why would he be asking for another check at the exact same timing.

Bonnett would know West had or was going to ask for a line check

Some duty sergeant who does not know what his team was doing.

However, his efforts were rewarded because by 13/09/85 (5 weeks later) he is now an Inspector.

Sorry HB the Burrell log has been constructed as I say in my opening remarks.
 
Do not get too much sun it might addle your brain. Am visiting Tenerife next week.
Ha Ha thanks, sun sea and cycling.  Friends have just posted me positive news about the Tawny Owl anyway,  they’re going to release her back to the area that she was found 👍. I’m a hero 😇