New Yorker podcast

[snow66!]

But Jeremy admitted to slipping the catch on windows to gain entry ("secure windows, insecure windows..it makes no difference"). He had probably done it as a lark as a teenager, or arriving home late from Goldsmiths or the Frog and Beans and finding June had locked the doors.

Fine, Steve! But the house was secured from the inside! All doors locked and bolted, all windows 'firmly' secured!
Taff doesn't mention any latches 'partially' secured, indicating an exit, does he??
Ann Eaton and her dad were playing about with the windows and getting results that did not match the way Taff found the kitchen window! nay all the windows, 'with all latches secured' !

[Hardy Boy]

Surely with a case like WHF where five people are found dead and one of them is holding the murder weapon, you have to conclude murder/suicide unless it was possible for someone to break in and kill everyone before staging the scene! That was the only other possibility, and to rule that possibility out someone had to determine if the house had been securely locked from the inside!
That was the only action needed to confirm murder/suicide, the one and only action.
And that was exactly what Taff did!! He took the only action 'needed' in order to rule out foul play from a third party, as it were.
And Taff certainly checked to see if all doors and windows were firmly secured, hence any chance of an 'intruder' carrying out the shooting and then exiting the house should have been ruled out, yes?
Now when we hear of all these police officers who thought that Sheila wasn't the killer from the start, just what part about the house being securely locked from the inside didn't they understand?
No, in reality, Taff did the only thing that was neccessary to rule out a third party killer before leaving, hence Sheila had to be the killer
And once Taff did check the house was secured there was nothing else for him to do, he wasn't a scene of crime officer was he, so why wait around?
BUT!! alas the jury were told that just how JB entered or exited the house was of little importance!!
What if the shooting had taken place in a locked bank vault with a timer?

Your bypassing what’s needed in a murder inquiry purely on a locked house,   locked house proves nothing beyond someone inside,  treating it as conclusive the way you are is the same as Taff did, he  allowed a murder suicide call to be fixed within minutes of attending WHF, bypassing the forensic investigation required to establish who did what, and when, checking windows and doors is not a conclusion to a murder.


A locked bank vault wouldn’t change that either,   you still investigate how events unfolded inside it. Locks don’t solve crimes; evidence does and forensics

[Steve_uk]

Fine, Steve! But the house was secured from the inside! All doors locked and bolted, all windows 'firmly' secured!
Taff doesn't mention any latches 'partially' secured, indicating an exit, does he??
Ann Eaton and her dad were playing about with the windows and getting results that did not match the way Taff found the kitchen window! nay all the windows, 'with all latches secured' !

But Jeremy himself broke into the farm on 16 September, ostensibly to retrieve insurance documents, but conveniently giving himself an excuse for any marks on the casing or give on the frames. He no doubt was taunting police during those interrogations which occurred one week previously, so knew how law enforcement minds were thinking.

[Hardy Boy]

Fine, Steve! But the house was secured from the inside! All doors locked and bolted, all windows 'firmly' secured!
Taff doesn't mention any latches 'partially' secured, indicating an exit, does he??
Ann Eaton and her dad were playing about with the windows and getting results that did not match the way Taff found the kitchen window! nay all the windows, 'with all latches secured' !

And we all know how thorough Taff was with his 25 minute cameo appearance.

[Steve_uk]

And we all know how thorough Taff was with his 25 minute cameo appearance.

No worse than many others promoted beyond their station, though given his role the incompetence proved far more detrimental.

[Hardy Boy]

No worse than many others promoted beyond their station, though given his role the incompetence proved far more detrimental.

Either way Steve for Bamber or for the murdered family, it was a shocking investigation lead by Taff Jones,  absolutely shocking!

[Bubo bubo]

I must have missed this? where does he say this? COLP? no good being clever ages latter from the man who retypes page 5 of his ws on a different typewriter.   

How do you support this retyping? Can you say which statement and how it can be seen. I think it is the copying and scanning which are on different settings. Thanks

[Rob_]

How do you support this retyping? Can you say which statement and how it can be seen. I think it is the copying and scanning which are on different settings. Thanks

It's woodcock's statement of 20/09/85 Bubo it may be innocent but looks strange to me? 

Look at the "g" for example.

[Bubo bubo]

It's woodcock's statement of 20/09/85 Bubo it may be innocent but looks strange to me? 

Look at the "g" for example.

Yes I see your point. On page 4 the 'g' has a hollow looped tail while on page 5 the 'g' has a hook tail like this. Well spotted. I  also notice that there appears to be a disconnect between the wording between the two pages. The last sentence on page 4 does not relate to the initial wording on page 5

[Rob_]

No worse than many others promoted beyond their station, though given his role the incompetence proved far more detrimental.

It's strange Steve Taff was regarded as a excellent detective with some officers who worked with him unhappy at how he was portrayed and made to be a scapegoat.

He must have been pretty certain it was murder suicide.   

[Rob_]

Yes I see your point. On page 4 the 'g' has a hollow looped tail while on page 5 the 'g' has a hook tail like this. Well spotted. I  also notice that there appears to be a disconnect between the wording between the two pages. The last sentence on page 4 does not relate to the initial wording on page 5

Just at a critical point when entering the kitchen as well Bubo.

I don't like this sort of thing, then there is West's hand copied log which to me is unforgivable.   

[Rob_]

Yes I see your point. On page 4 the 'g' has a hollow looped tail while on page 5 the 'g' has a hook tail like this. Well spotted. I  also notice that there appears to be a disconnect between the wording between the two pages. The last sentence on page 4 does not relate to the initial wording on page 5

I am sure I read a statement where it says they struggled to enter the kitchen because Nevil was behind the door Bubo? But cannot now find it anywhere.

It looks like the top of page 5 is where it may have been cut out? Or have I gone nutty!

     

[Adam]

It's strange Steve Taff was regarded as a excellent detective with some officers who worked with him unhappy at how he was portrayed and made to be a scapegoat.

He must have been pretty certain it was murder suicide.   

He did have over a year to persuade people not to change direction. Or leave the case/EP in protest.

But didn't.

[Jonathan]

It's strange Steve Taff was regarded as a excellent detective with some officers who worked with him unhappy at how he was portrayed and made to be a scapegoat.

He must have been pretty certain it was murder suicide.   

Do we know if the trial defence produced any written evidence to that effect i.e. Taff's notes, memos, etc

[Hardy Boy]

He did have over a year to persuade people not to change direction. Or leave the case/EP in protest.

But didn't.

Changes  was made to policing after the Bamber case…….issues with police handling of the Jeremy Bamber case led to an official review and the introduction of tightened national procedures for major investigations and crime scene preservation.
The initial police investigation into the 1985 White House Farm murders, where five members of the Bamber family were killed, was widely criticized for a "bungled" approach and significant errors, primarily because the scene was initially treated as a MURDER SUICIDE and not secured as a potential murder scene.
Key problems identified included:
The senior investigating officer (TAFF) wrongly concluding it was a murder-suicide, which meant normal murder case procedures were not followed.

Following a report on the investigation, the Home Secretary ordered a review of police procedures, and Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Constabulary conducted a separate review, resulting in 18 recommendations for the police service and reinforcing standard procedures for managing major inquiries. These steps led to improved protocols for handling evidence and securing crime scenes.

When Taff told and briefed Cook it was suicide and gave him the run down of Bambers phone call from his Father, he was already relying and bought into Bamber’s account that Sheila had “gone crazy with a gun.” Having accepted that and what Bamber had told them, This acceptance obviously shows with his brief twenty five minute cameo visit and this then filtered down to those under his command. 

It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain the investigation was seriously lacking,   a multiple homicide/murder of this scale should never be approached with tunnel vision, its basic Management progress and the thing I was taught in the mines, tunnel vision is replaced with funnel vision!