New Yorker podcast

[Hardy Boy]

"I have had recourse to call you out on this before"!!!!  Just who the HELL do you think you are, you arrogant, pompous....................person!! Still. at least I can be thankful that you have me on ignore so you won't see this. But the rest of the forum hasn't so they can!

Its in his world and not in mine,  he’s never even come close!

[Rob_]

Or because he was the sort who refused to listen to argument?

So you are telling me with two children and three adults lying dead 50 officers never had the balls to tell Taff he might be wrong?

I know in those days it was difficult to question a senior officer, but I go by Cook's statement he said him and his team saw nothing to contradict the scenario of Sheila being the shooter. 

[Adam]

So you are telling me with two children and three adults lying dead 50 officers never had the balls to tell Taff he might be wrong?

I know in those days it was difficult to question a senior officer, but I go by Cook's statement he said him and his team saw nothing to contradict the scenario of Sheila being the shooter.

Things changed from the first few minutes inside WHF.

[Rob_]

Things changed from the first few minutes inside WHF.

I agree Adam all the officers become lemon's too sacred to tell Taff it can't be Sheila.

[Adam]

I agree Adam all the officers become lemon's too sacred to tell Taff it can't be Sheila.

So that's why he was replaced.

[Hardy Boy]

So you are telling me with two children and three adults lying dead 50 officers never had the balls to tell Taff he might be wrong?

I know in those days it was difficult to question a senior officer, but I go by Cook's statement he said him and his team saw nothing to contradict the scenario of Sheila being the shooter.

Read Woodcocks Statement, he wasn’t satisfied,  who are the 50 officers, there was woodcock showing him around WHF and Taff made his way out into the court yard after 25mins and called it suicide, he spoke to Miller, Stan and Cook,  how could they call him out at this stage anyway  The raid team had gone, and all these officers did was make the house safe, they weren’t there to form any judgement.

Woodcock states…….”I did not consider going to see any other senior officer because I felt that I had explained to the Officer IN CHARGE OF THE CASE WHAT I HAD SEEN and felt and it wasn’t in my mind to GO ABOVE HIM”

[Hardy Boy]

So you are telling me with two children and three adults lying dead 50 officers never had the balls to tell Taff he might be wrong?

I know in those days it was difficult to question a senior officer, but I go by Cook's statement he said him and his team saw nothing to contradict the scenario of Sheila being the shooter.

So that tells you  something about Taff then,  he wasn’t very approachable.

[Jane]

So you are telling me with two children and three adults lying dead 50 officers never had the balls to tell Taff he might be wrong?

I know in those days it was difficult to question a senior officer, but I go by Cook's statement he said him and his team saw nothing to contradict the scenario of Sheila being the shooter.

From what I've been told -and it's all I have to go on, as said by two officers on the case- about his 'people skills' -or lack of- Yes, I believe that's exactly what I'm saying. Perhaps you've never been unlucky enough to work with someone, senior to you, that you've not dared to question?

[Rob_]

Read Woodcocks Statement, he wasn’t satisfied,  who are the 50 officers, there was woodcock showing him around WHF and Taff made his way out into the court yard after 25mins and called it suicide, he spoke to Miller, Stan and Cook,  how could they call him out at this stage anyway  The raid team had gone, and all these officers did was make the house safe, they weren’t there to form any judgement.

Woodcock states…….”I did not consider going to see any other senior officer because I felt that I had explained to the Officer IN CHARGE OF THE CASE WHAT I HAD SEEN and felt and it wasn’t in my mind to GO ABOVE HIM”

I must have missed this? where does he say this? COLP? no good being clever ages latter from the man who retypes page 5 of his ws on a different typewriter.     

[Steve_uk]

From what I've been told -and it's all I have to go on, as said by two officers on the case- about his 'people skills' -or lack of- Yes, I believe that's exactly what I'm saying. Perhaps you've never been unlucky enough to work with someone, senior to you, that you've not dared to question?

You can question, but you never get credit for it.

[Hardy Boy]

I must have missed this? where does he say this? COLP? no good being clever ages latter from the man who retypes page 5 of his ws on a different typewriter.   

So you’ve not missed it at all then, you knew where it was.  If you check,  its from his notes in his pocket book made on the day and from his witness statement made on the 20th made  available for COLP.  He tells you why he never said anything, he also brought it up with others, Stan stood up to Taff and got a dressing down from him as well.

[Hardy Boy]

You can question, but you never get credit for it.

A lot of management in my day would do the opposite to what you suggested anyway, it was a power trip for some.

[snow66!]

Surely with a case like WHF where five people are found dead and one of them is holding the murder weapon, you have to conclude murder/suicide unless it was possible for someone to break in and kill everyone before staging the scene! That was the only other possibility, and to rule that possibility out someone had to determine if the house had been securely locked from the inside!
That was the only action needed to confirm murder/suicide, the one and only action.
And that was exactly what Taff did!! He took the only action 'needed' in order to rule out foul play from a third party, as it were.
And Taff certainly checked to see if all doors and windows were firmly secured, hence any chance of an 'intruder' carrying out the shooting and then exiting the house should have been ruled out, yes?
Now when we hear of all these police officers who thought that Sheila wasn't the killer from the start, just what part about the house being securely locked from the inside didn't they understand?
No, in reality, Taff did the only thing that was neccessary to rule out a third party killer before leaving, hence Sheila had to be the killer
And once Taff did check the house was secured there was nothing else for him to do, he wasn't a scene of crime officer was he, so why wait around?
BUT!! alas the jury were told that just how JB entered or exited the house was of little importance!!
What if the shooting had taken place in a locked bank vault with a timer?

[Steve_uk]

Surely with a case like WHF where five people are found dead and one of them is holding the murder weapon, you have to conclude murder/suicide unless it was possible for someone to break in and kill everyone before staging the scene! That was the only other possibility, and to rule that possibility out someone had to determine if the house had been securely locked from the inside!
That was the only action needed to confirm murder/suicide, the one and only action.
And that was exactly what Taff did!! He took the only action 'needed' in order to rule out foul play from a third party, as it were.
And Taff certainly checked to see if all doors and windows were firmly secured, hence any chance of an 'intruder' carrying out the shooting and then exiting the house should have been ruled out, yes?
Now when we hear of all these police officers who thought that Sheila wasn't the killer from the start, just what part about the house being securely locked from the inside didn't they understand?
No, in reality, Taff did the only thing that was neccessary to rule out a third party killer before leaving, hence Sheila had to be the killer
And once Taff did check the house was secured there was nothing else for him to do, he wasn't a scene of crime officer was he, so why wait around?
BUT!! alas the jury were told that just how JB entered or exited the house was of little importance!!
What if the shooting had taken place in a locked bank vault with a timer?

But Jeremy admitted to slipping the catch on windows to gain entry ("secure windows, insecure windows..it makes no difference"). He had probably done it as a lark as a teenager, or arriving home late from Goldsmiths or the Frog and Beans and finding June had locked the doors.

[Hardy Boy]

Read Woodcocks Statement, he wasn’t satisfied,  who are the 50 officers, there was woodcock showing him around WHF and Taff made his way out into the court yard after 25mins and called it suicide, he spoke to Miller, Stan and Cook,  how could they call him out at this stage anyway  The raid team had gone, and all these officers did was make the house safe, they weren’t there to form any judgement.

Woodcock states…….”I did not consider going to see any other senior officer because I felt that I had explained to the Officer IN CHARGE OF THE CASE WHAT I HAD SEEN and felt and it wasn’t in my mind to GO ABOVE HIM”

From Stone…….If we consider the way the senior
examination was
carried out the officers arrived at the scene, the SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICER  (Taff) briefed the senior scene of crime officer as to the situation and FACTS. The senior investigating officer in this case made the assumption that he was investigating four murders and a suicide.


He later goes on to say…… I have to accept that the extent of the examination was perfunctory and we did not examine the premises to the extent we should have.