Jeremy Bamber is defiant, and believes there's a " cover up "

[Jane]

If he hasn't booked you a table at Claridges, you may need to make the first move.

The Goring might be nice!

[Steve_uk]

On the 07/09/85 JM came forward after RB had his meeting with PS on the 06/09/85

This triggered EP to look in more detail at JB as the perpetrator. On the 17/09/85 JB was quizzed by Taff and RBJ about a problem/conundrum involving the rounds fired and the bullets left loose on the kitchen work top. (Action 116 see RBJ in archive).

This was not resolved because JB did not know or remember how many bullets were present in the magazine when he filled it prior to going out to shoot rabbits. Nor did he know whether the box he used was a full 50 rounds. Largely because the previous week he had a target shooting  practice with AP.

From a previous Bubo bubo post

“I think the origin for this discussion was whether the CT had their numbers right in claiming there were 30 shots fired. I say this is unresolvable with the information we have to hand. Such as it is we do not and cannot know how many rounds were in the mag to start with nor do we know that all the boxes were full. JB and AP had a shooting session the previous weekend and we cannot know if AP kept ammunition at WHF along with his other equipment or whether there were any loose rounds that were stored out of a box, say dropped into a bag.  We cannot know if any of the many people who traipsed through the building took rounds as souvenirs".

"If they have evidence that there were 30 shots fired it will be up to them to make the case as they see fit. There is no obligation on their part to satisfy our curiosity”.



On the 20/09/85 MF received DRH22 which was 29 bullets which he recorded on a GER.
However, in his statement dated 13/11/85 he now says he received 30 rounds. Page 6

I believe this is because EP used 1 of the thirty on the work top to replace the cartridge fired by the TFG in June. I have posted extensively on this issue. They say they found the last cartridge on the 09/08/85 next to the wardrobe. It is possible that this cartridge case was obtained by a test fire to produce a replacement cartridge case.

This was, in my opinion part of the original cover up. And this led to the evidence which was used when EP framed JB. They had to ensure that the numbers agreed. MF’s statement as we have come to expect was unsigned.

What is more disturbing is that to further their malfeasance they say that the total unspent rounds were made up of two submissions. Lab items numbers 93 and 51. Lab items are numbered as they are received. So, one would expect that they would send all the unspent rounds as one item and this means that the item 51 was sent before the main batch of unspent rounds. One of the rounds was still in the holding tray which sits inside the box However, this has been changed in his statement. Item 51 was originally

A red fibre found on SC’s nightdress

To add more to this manipulation item 50 was a red fibre found on the silencer.

To my knowledge I have never seen this used as a part of the prosecution’s evidence to advance the suggestion, that SC was shot by JB with the SM in place. Nor have any guilt supporters used this in SM discussions.

I think one would know if one had opened a full box of ammunition. There's mystery surrounding the amount, leaving aside whether June would have put them away following her telephone conversation with Pamela.https://www.facebook.com/groups/JeremyBamberDiscussion/posts/1912373829561297/ 

[Bubo bubo]

If the telephone in the master bedroom was there why had it disappeared when the Raid Team entered?

Because as I Have posted it formed part of the restaging of the crime scene and was done to ensure there was not a telephone close to where June was found since they wished to discredit the 999 call.

[Bubo bubo]

I think one would know if one had opened a full box of ammunition. There's mystery surrounding the amount, leaving aside whether June would have put them away following her telephone conversation with Pamela.https://www.facebook.com/groups/JeremyBamberDiscussion/posts/1912373829561297/

The boxes used are quite flimsy but are made more robust by an internal tray into which the bullets are arranged a bit like eggs in boxes. They can usually be opened at either end. Most of the weight is in the bullets themselves. When you open a box it is possible that you cannot distinguish if there are empty spaces at the other end. If you open one end and tip the box the tray and the rounds fall heavily in a heap and most of the rounds fall/dislodge from the internal tray.

SC's rampage started after June had retired for the night and it is likely that she talked to Pamela from the bedroom. She may not have seen the rounds on the work top or may have left them. They where not very house proud as can be seen in some of the crime scene photos.

[Bubo bubo]

I do hope the Numpty epithet was not directed at me. You will be repaid in kind if so. As for the telephone dialling tone, are you quite sure that "engaged" and "off the hook" didn't produce the same sound?

The Chelmsford telephone exchange system was one of the first digital systems in the country. Telephonists could tell the status of a line by both lights and sounds. If off the hook was registered there would be a yellow light and the sound called the howler would be heard by any telephonist who accessed the line.
The engaged tone was a repeating double bleep. Two 400 Hz bleeps. The engaged light was red and the idle light was green. Satisfied?

[Steve_uk]

Because as I Have posted it formed part of the restaging of the crime scene and was done to ensure there was not a telephone close to where June was found since they wished to discredit the 999 call.

I don't understand the desire to discredit a 999 call from White House Farm at that stage in the proceedings.

[Steve_uk]

The boxes used are quite flimsy but are made more robust by an internal tray into which the bullets are arranged a bit like eggs in boxes. They can usually be opened at either end. Most of the weight is in the bullets themselves. When you open a box it is possible that you cannot distinguish if there are empty spaces at the other end. If you open one end and tip the box the tray and the rounds fall heavily in a heap and most of the rounds fall/dislodge from the internal tray.

SC's rampage started after June had retired for the night and it is likely that she talked to Pamela from the bedroom. She may not have seen the rounds on the work top or may have left them. They where not very house proud as can be seen in some of the crime scene photos.

I have always thought on balance that June would have preferred to take the call from her sister whilst lying in bed. But she put Sheila on immediately to talk to Auntie Pam, which suggests she was not. I can't see Sheila accompanying June to her mother's bedroom under any pretext.

[Bubo bubo]

I don't understand the desire to discredit a 999 call from White House Farm at that stage in the proceedings.

They were thinking ahead. At some point they would have to give more information to the coroner who effectively opened the inquest and then put it on the back burner while the police continued their investigations. It would not look good and would have invited more detailed scrutiny if they disclosed the call.

[Bubo bubo]

I have always thought on balance that June would have preferred to take the call from her sister whilst lying in bed. But she put Sheila on immediately to talk to Auntie Pam, which suggests she was not. I can't see Sheila accompanying June to her mother's bedroom under any pretext.

That's just your opinion and prejudices narrowing the possibilities. She could have called out to SC to enter the room whilst she was checking the twins were OK. June was keen to give more attention to SC following the difficult conversations earlier in the evening and went to the toilet to give her a bit more privacy while on the call. There are other possibilities. I will leave you to think more broadly.

[Steve_uk]

That's just your opinion and prejudices narrowing the possibilities. She could have called out to SC to enter the room whilst she was checking the twins were OK. June was keen to give more attention to SC following the difficult conversations earlier in the evening and went to the toilet to give her a bit more privacy while on the call. There are other possibilities. I will leave you to think more broadly.

Don't be ridiculous, and stop the insulting remarks. June would not call out to her daughter were she in the vicinity of the twins. Daniel and Nicholas were usually put to bed at 7:00pm after a bath. She would not want to risk waking them.

[Bubo bubo]

Don't be ridiculous, and stop the insulting remarks. June would not call out to her daughter were she in the vicinity of the twins. Daniel and Nicholas were usually put to bed at 7:00pm after a bath. She would not want to risk waking them.

How many alternatives do I have to post before I land on one which you find acceptable. How about this. June has just gone to the bathroom. The phone rings. SC hears it and worries it might wake the twins. She answers the phone. She has a short maybe offhand and incoherent chat with Pam. She either explains That June will be along soon. June rushes back to the bedroom and either picks up the phone or is handed it by SC who leaves the room. This all a theories of possibilities we do not know exactly how it played out and never will.

[Steve_uk]

How many alternatives do I have to post before I land on one which you find acceptable. How about this. June has just gone to the bathroom. The phone rings. SC hears it and worries it might wake the twins. She answers the phone. She has a short maybe offhand and incoherent chat with Pam. She either explains That June will be along soon. June rushes back to the bedroom and either picks up the phone or is handed it by SC who leaves the room. This all a theories of possibilities we do not know exactly how it played out and never will.

What was the accusation you levelled against me about not reading statements? I suggest you read the following again: https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1188.0.html

[Bubo bubo]

What was the accusation you levelled against me about not reading statements? I suggest you read the following again: https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1188.0.html

Fine by me. Not far off my latest try. This still means they were most likely using the upstairs phone which is where this discussion started. "Sheila has gone to bed" Where did it go?

[Curiosity]

The boxes used are quite flimsy but are made more robust by an internal tray into which the bullets are arranged a bit like eggs in boxes. They can usually be opened at either end. Most of the weight is in the bullets themselves. When you open a box it is possible that you cannot distinguish if there are empty spaces at the other end. If you open one end and tip the box the tray and the rounds fall heavily in a heap and most of the rounds fall/dislodge from the internal tray.

SC's rampage started after June had retired for the night and it is likely that she talked to Pamela from the bedroom. She may not have seen the rounds on the work top or may have left them. They where not very house proud as can be seen in some of the crime scene photos.

The boxes are not flimsy at all. They're made of rigid injection-moulded plastic, of similar size in 1985 to what they are now, the only difference being the latter are all opaque black in one piece whereas the earlier versions had both a transparent base and an opaque top part clip-locked together. Both have a thin plastic lid (with stuck-on paper info label), which only needs sliding off to reveal the contents. With Bamber's box it was easy to see how many rounds were contained within, either through the transparent base or when the lid was completely removed as shown in the worktop c/s photo, where one round was left remaining in it, while the rest were tipped out making 30 in all (i.e. after loading the magazine at least twice to carry out the murders).

Bamber claimed in his first two w/stats that he retrieved an almost full single box, i.e. containing less than 50 rounds, and an empty magazine from the cupboard, tipped out the former on the kitchen worktop, then loaded the magazine with between 8-10 rounds.

There was no rampage by Sheila, and there was no ivory rotary-dial phone for June to use in the bedroom either; that was previously moved downstairs by one of the family to the worktop, and if Bamber was truthful about his magazine-filling episode, June must have known where he left the bullets and box because she was sitting behind him in the kitchen at the same time.

[ngb1066]

The boxes are not flimsy at all. They're made of rigid injection-moulded plastic, of similar size in 1985 to what they are now, the only difference being the latter are all opaque black in one piece whereas the earlier versions had both a transparent base and an opaque top part clip-locked together. Both have a thin plastic lid (with stuck-on paper info label), which only needs sliding off to reveal the contents. With Bamber's box it was easy to see how many rounds were contained within, either through the transparent base or when lid was completely removed as shown in the worktop c/s photo, where one round was left remaining in it, while the rest were tipped out making 30 in all.

Bamber claimed in his first two w/stats that he retrieved an almost full single box, i.e. containing less than 50 rounds, and an empty magazine from the cupboard, tipped out the former on the kitchen worktop, then loaded the magazine with between 8-10 rounds.

There was no rampage by Sheila, and there was no ivory rotary-dial phone for June to use in the bedroom either; that was previously moved downstairs by one of the family to the worktop, and if Bamber was truthful about his magazine-filling episode, June must have known where he left the bullets and box because she was sitting behind him in the kitchen at the same time.

There were different types of boxes used by Eley for their ammunition.  Some was as you describe but others were exactly as described by Bubo bubo.