CAL's visit to WHF.

[ILB]

We rely on sources from people who knew her.

 just giving 1 word answers on the phone a few hours before her death.

Of course she couldn't function.

Im currently sat in my living room after a long day grafting. If a friend or relative or customer phoned me right now Id probably reply with a one word answer as im tired. Id probably say " ill phone you tomorrow pal something along those lines. People like their personal time to engage in whatever they want to do. I for example like to post about this case or watch films in downtime. Especially in midweek. Everyone is different.

Shelia giving short answers to PB doesnt mean she couldn't function. She probably just couldn't be arsed to talk to her.

[Jane]

Jane, if you think about it, this is contradictory.

Perhaps so, Roch. But whilst JB thought he'd committed the perfect crime, not everything went to plan. Also, isn't it said that all murderers leave their autograph?

[ILB]

I agree with most of what you say regarding Sheila's functionality, or lack of. I do, however, think well paid occupation, for her, in the working world, was very limited to non existent. She was trained for nothing. Everything she tried, failed, ergo, she either had to have been on benefits, or collecting from the bank of N&J. The tiny amount of 'cash in hand' she'd have received for cleaning or waitressing, probably wouldn't have kept her for a week. If her flat was leasehold, the maintenance charges would have been astronomical. She'd have needed to clean or wait from dawn to dusk to fund it. I imagine she was a huge drain on the Bambers' finances.

I'm not certain that she'd ever aspired to anything remotely academic. She appeared to have gone for employment which looked glamorous without any input of effort. Neither modelling nor hairdressing/manicuring fit that description! -I can speak from personal experience. I never earned well until I was teaching, but such required much hard work, and qualifications Sheila didn't have- and as she appeared to like to wear her nails long, typing would have been out of the question!

Both children relied on their parents and they were not independent.

Out of both children though Shelia was the one who had much greater problems ( only surface talk though because if Jeremy is indeed gulity of what he is in prison for he had greater " mental problems than shelia ) he just hid it behind a cloak of " outward respectablity"

Going back to Shelia though the fact she managed to look for work and tried to keep a semblance of normality " social occasions, work, travel etc whilst battling with what she was battling with can only be commended as far as I am concerned. For all her problems she still showed some nous.

[Jane]

Both children relied on their parents and they were not independent.

Out of both children though Shelia was the one who had much greater problems ( only surface talk though because if Jeremy is indeed gulity of what he is in prison for he had greater " mental problems than shelia ) he just hid it behind a cloak of " outward respectablity"

Going back to Shelia though the fact she managed to look for work and tried to keep a semblance of normality " social occasions, work, travel etc whilst battling with what she was battling with can only be commended as far as I am concerned. For all her problems she still showed some nous.

Unfortunately, there is no known treatment for entitlement, just like there is no treatment for Narcissism or Psychopathy. They are mindsets, all of which can remain hidden "behind a cloak of outward respectability".

Was Sheila actively seeking employment at the time of her death? I'm thinking she'd hardly have had time. Just out of hospital, she spent time with Christine -there seems not to have been any problems with her meds then?- after which problems arose which would have taken time to resolve. So now, the time is getting near to the visit to WHF prior to the twin's holiday to Colin's sister in Denmark. It was during this that friends report her as being lethargic, unwashed and unkempt. None of which paints a picture of a woman seeking employment, does it?

[Steve_uk]

Unfortunately, there is no known treatment for entitlement, just like there is no treatment for Narcissism or Psychopathy. They are mindsets, all of which can remain hidden "behind a cloak of outward respectability".

Was Sheila actively seeking employment at the time of her death? I'm thinking she'd hardly have had time. Just out of hospital, she spent time with Christine -there seems not to have been any problems with her meds then?- after which problems arose which would have taken time to resolve. So now, the time is getting near to the visit to WHF prior to the twin's holiday to Colin's sister in Denmark. It was during this that friends report her as being lethargic, unwashed and unkempt. None of which paints a picture of a woman seeking employment, does it?

No, and there's a difference between being prepared for one social event such as travelling to Heathrow Airport and undertaking a full week's work with all the effort involved.

By the way: it was Norway Colin was going to take the twins to.

[Jane]

No, and there's a difference between being prepared for one social event such as travelling to Heathrow Airport and undertaking a full week's work with all the effort involved.

By the way: it was Norway Colin was going to take the twins to.

Thank-you, Steve! I knew it was wrong as I typed it, and Yes, preparing oneself for a one off social event is rather different from having to gear oneself up to do a week's work!

[Adam]

Maybe not the relatives, but I think house painter Michael Horsnell would have recognized the symptoms, if not the diagnosis: she walked very rigidly, and the only part of her that moved was from the knees down". Farm secretary Barbara Wilson also noted Sheila walking through a gaggle of geese "as if they weren't there". Both references from the CAL book.

Phsically & mentally she was a lamb to the slaughter.

[Adam]

Are you calling Tomkinson a liar? They were planning a holiday.

Shelia was having dates with men and temporarily holding down jobs, it requires a degree of dexterity. Her competence in not being able to do her tasks does not releate to her not being able to function. She just didn't impress her employers and she either quit or they let her go. In this day and age " able bodied " persons as you yourself would term often fail a probation period.

Agree she had difficulties, disagree she was a vegetable.

To reiterate, not trying to benefit Jeremy Bamber, just providing an accurate picture.

There was no way Toro Tompkinson & her parents were going to look after Sheila 24/7.

Wishful thinking from Sheila. But she got a holiday at WHF.

[Adam]

Im currently sat in my living room after a long day grafting. If a friend or relative or customer phoned me right now Id probably reply with a one word answer as im tired. Id probably say " ill phone you tomorrow pal something along those lines. People like their personal time to engage in whatever they want to do. I for example like to post about this case or watch films in downtime. Especially in midweek. Everyone is different.

Shelia giving short answers to PB doesnt mean she couldn't function. She probably just couldn't be arsed to talk to her.

Yes Sheila had just had a long day grafting.

Repeat - It was 3 minutes of 1 word answers before June took the phone away.

[Adam]

So no confirmed GP/healthcare professional medical diagnosis. Just an opinion of " Dr Boutflour " after the event of Shelia, Daniel, Nicholas, June and Nevill been found dead.

Tardive dyskinesia is a sympton of Haldiperiodal.

Sheila did show all the symptons.

[ILB]

Unfortunately, there is no known treatment for entitlement, just like there is no treatment for Narcissism or Psychopathy. They are mindsets, all of which can remain hidden "behind a cloak of outward respectability".

Was Sheila actively seeking employment at the time of her death? I'm thinking she'd hardly have had time. Just out of hospital, she spent time with Christine -there seems not to have been any problems with her meds then?- after which problems arose which would have taken time to resolve. So now, the time is getting near to the visit to WHF prior to the twin's holiday to Colin's sister in Denmark. It was during this that friends report her as being lethargic, unwashed and unkempt. None of which paints a picture of a woman seeking employment, does it?

She was seeking and undertaking part time employment as a cleaner. None of the jobs lasted long. Some by the employers decision. Some by her own violation. She also went out, dated men and planned a holiday to France with TT and her family.

Shelias prestigious background and family wealth has nothing to do with her functional dexterity.

To put it bluntly ( and I didnt set out to make this point) if she can move and handle items she can fire a .22

[ILB]

Tardive dyskinesia is a sympton of Haldiperiodal.

Sheila did show all the symptons.

Without a GP diagnosis the claim is null and void.

Can't go on  "Dr" Boutflour

[ILB]

Yes Sheila had just had a long day grafting.

Repeat - It was 3 minutes of 1 word answers before June took the phone away.

You're looking into the matter to deeply.

She simply couldn't be arsed to talk.

[ILB]

Yes Sheila had just had a long day grafting.

Repeat - It was 3 minutes of 1 word answers before June took the phone away.

Translated roughly " I am only speaking to you out of politeness, hurry up and end the phonecall, I don't want to talk "

We have all been there.

[ILB]

There was no way Toro Tompkinson & her parents were going to look after Sheila 24/7.

Wishful thinking from Sheila. But she got a holiday at WHF.

No they were going to enjoy a holiday in France.

She wasnt wheelchair bound.