Article about recent decision

[Hardy Boy]

There was no 999 call.  Just the GPO connecting the open line at WHF to EP to enable them to listen in. 

No June did not make a 999 call.  June sustained her initial gunshot wounds whilst prone in bed.  Bullets went through her and into the pillow.  When she got up out of bed she was dripping blood and there are no drip stains leading out of the bedroom. 

Dr Craig gave an estimated time of death.

There are enough known facts to know what happened:

- NB and SC were downstairs
- NB called JB from the kitchen phone and told him SC was going crazy and had the gun.
- SC went upstairs and opened fire on June
- NB dropped the receiver and went upstairs where he sustained his facial shots on the landing.  He turned to return downstairs where he sustained the shots to his shoulder and elbow
- NB and SC ended up in the kitchen where an altercation took place.  NB lost his life having sustained 4 further gunshot wounds to his head
- June walked round the bed and back perhaps looking for the phone.  She was shot a further twice by the bedroom door and lost her life
- The twins were shot
- SC shot herself

And by the time JB and EP turned up they were all dead.

If Sheila required assistance, all she had to do was walk outside or shout out to the police outside. Adams states challenges went on for a while with no response.  They used a loud hailer and tried for about 2 hours to make contact, they were standing about 30 metres  away at this time, all they heard was the sound of a dog barking.  If the line was being monitored, wouldn’t WHF phone  have to be placed back on the cradle and left for 2 minutes to clear the lines again to make another call out? 

[Hardy Boy]

My guess, looking at the ground floor plans, anyone using the telephone would have been seen by the raid team on the white side of the house, the same team positioned 30m away using the loud hailer trying to make contact.  The telephone is on the sideboard next to the sink where the window was.  It would have been virtually impossible to miss movement across the window especially if the kitchen light was on?

[snow66!]

It is difficult to be certain because I believe the Milbank and JR statements are both faked as part of the hiding of a second 999 call that is indicated by the change in the line status in the logs. It is further complicated by these events which were happening during a shift change. I believe it is most likely that he listened in on the line that had been created on the 01245 number which he knew had originated as a new 999 call on or around 05.47

Is the Milbank statement on the forum here, Bubo?

[snow66!]

There was no 999 call.  Just the GPO connecting the open line at WHF to EP to enable them to listen in. 

No June did not make a 999 call.  June sustained her initial gunshot wounds whilst prone in bed.  Bullets went through her and into the pillow.  When she got up out of bed she was dripping blood and there are no drip stains leading out of the bedroom. 

Dr Craig gave an estimated time of death.

There are enough known facts to know what happened:

- NB and SC were downstairs
- NB called JB from the kitchen phone and told him SC was going crazy and had the gun.
- SC went upstairs and opened fire on June
- NB dropped the receiver and went upstairs where he sustained his facial shots on the landing.  He turned to return downstairs where he sustained the shots to his shoulder and elbow
- NB and SC ended up in the kitchen where an altercation took place.  NB lost his life having sustained 4 further gunshot wounds to his head
- June walked round the bed and back perhaps looking for the phone.  She was shot a further twice by the bedroom door and lost her life
- The twins were shot
- SC shot herself

And by the time JB and EP turned up they were all dead.

When did Nevill burn his back on the Aga, Cutie?

[Hardy Boy]

When did Nevill burn his back on the Aga, Cutie?

He didn’t and the CCRC don’t think he did either by the looks of things.

[Cambridgecutie]

If Sheila required assistance, all she had to do was walk outside or shout out to the police outside. Adams states challenges went on for a while with no response.  They used a loud hailer and tried for about 2 hours to make contact, they were standing about 30 metres  away at this time, all they heard was the sound of a dog barking.  If the line was being monitored, wouldn’t WHF phone  have to be placed back on the cradle and left for 2 minutes to clear the lines again to make another call out?

Excellent point.  No matter how compelling the evidence to show there was no 999 call from WHF it will not stop some. 

[Cambridgecutie]

When did Nevill burn his back on the Aga, Cutie?

You know my views on this - utter nonsense. 

[Hardy Boy]

If Sheila required assistance, all she had to do was walk outside or shout out to the police outside. Adams states challenges went on for a while with no response.  They used a loud hailer and tried for about 2 hours to make contact, they were standing about 30 metres  away at this time, all they heard was the sound of a dog barking.  If the line was being monitored, wouldn’t WHF phone  have to be placed back on the cradle and left for 2 minutes to clear the lines again to make another call out?

So Sheila was trying to ring the Police who were outside the Kitchen window shouting to her, what did she want more police to come?

[Bubo bubo]

There was no 999 call.  Just the GPO connecting the open line at WHF to EP to enable them to listen in. 

No June did not make a 999 call.  June sustained her initial gunshot wounds whilst prone in bed.  Bullets went through her and into the pillow.  When she got up out of bed she was dripping blood and there are no drip stains leading out of the bedroom. 

Dr Craig gave an estimated time of death.

There are enough known facts to know what happened:

- NB and SC were downstairs
- NB called JB from the kitchen phone and told him SC was going crazy and had the gun.
- SC went upstairs and opened fire on June
- NB dropped the receiver and went upstairs where he sustained his facial shots on the landing.  He turned to return downstairs where he sustained the shots to his shoulder and elbow
- NB and SC ended up in the kitchen where an altercation took place.  NB lost his life having sustained 4 further gunshot wounds to his head
- June walked round the bed and back perhaps looking for the phone.  She was shot a further twice by the bedroom door and lost her life
- The twins were shot
- SC shot herself

And by the time JB and EP turned up they were all dead.

You are all over the place. Dr Craig did not give TOD's. He gives timings for when he certified death.

You continue to ignore the change in the telephone status which is clear in the logs.

Your scenario is based on the fact that the bodies were not moved which I dispute although I do agree that NB was not shot in the bedroom.

It also presumes that June did not go downstairs with NB. In your scenario you assume that SC is running around the house with a loaded rifle and June just stays in bed. Surely she would have gone to try and protect the twins or performed some other actions most likely suggested by NB.

As I have said many times no one knows for certain how the tragedy was played out. EP would have the best chance of determining this though even they could not ascribe timings to events. There may well have been a lull in proceedings when SC was reloading or fitting another magazine. She may have locked herself in a room whilst ranting, raving and issuing threats. It is perfectly possible that June evaded the initial onslaught.

[Bubo bubo]

Is the Milbank statement on the forum here, Bubo?

No

[Bubo bubo]

If Sheila required assistance, all she had to do was walk outside or shout out to the police outside. Adams states challenges went on for a while with no response.  They used a loud hailer and tried for about 2 hours to make contact, they were standing about 30 metres  away at this time, all they heard was the sound of a dog barking.  If the line was being monitored, wouldn’t WHF phone  have to be placed back on the cradle and left for 2 minutes to clear the lines again to make another call out?

Wrong. There is no time lag. The line is closed almost immediately and if you then pick up the handset you get a dial tone.

[Bubo bubo]

So Sheila was trying to ring the Police who were outside the Kitchen window shouting to her, what did she want more police to come?

SC was in a psychotic state. She would have no reason to call 999. However, the same could not be said of June who would be seeking help.

[Hardy Boy]

Wrong. There is no time lag. The line is closed almost immediately and if you then pick up the handset you get a dial tone.

Oh I must have read the Engineers report wrong then.

[Hardy Boy]

SC was in a psychotic state. She would have no reason to call 999. However, the same could not be said of June who would be seeking help.

June Seeking help from the People just outside shouting down a Loud Hailer?  When she gets through to the Police she does a Ronan Keating and “says nothing at All”  and makes no sound and no one spots her movement near the Kitchen window, then decides to leave the phone off the hook again?  Didn’t anyone know that the Phone belonged on the cradle in this house?

[Cambridgecutie]

You are all over the place. Dr Craig did not give TOD's. He gives timings for when he certified death.

And you have taken over from the late MT in that you are now the #1 crank on the case.

38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night.

You continue to ignore the change in the telephone status which is clear in the logs.

And you continue to ignore the most straightforward explanations that fit with all the other moving parts.

Your scenario is based on the fact that the bodies were not moved which I dispute although I do agree that NB was not shot in the bedroom.

It also presumes that June did not go downstairs with NB. In your scenario you assume that SC is running around the house with a loaded rifle and June just stays in bed. Surely she would have gone to try and protect the twins or performed some other actions most likely suggested by NB.

As I have said many times no one knows for certain how the tragedy was played out. EP would have the best chance of determining this though even they could not ascribe timings to events. There may well have been a lull in proceedings when SC was reloading or fitting another magazine. She may have locked herself in a room whilst ranting, raving and issuing threats. It is perfectly possible that June evaded the initial onslaught.

My scenario is based on the totality of the soc evidence as documented and photographed at soc

- Blood stains
- Casings
- Distance of shots
- Trajectories
- Wound tracks