Stuart Bower

[Hardy Boy]

Cook says he left White House Farm for the mortuary at 1.15 and the bodies were removed at 1.00

I don't trust what Woodcock says for example Cook says he got Inspector Montgomery the firearms officer to be escorted to the body of Sheila to make the rifle safe. Woodcock says it was him?

Cook says only the four of his team were in the house and no one was allowed inside while they did their investigation.     

Hi Rob, yes I’ve read what Woodcock and Cook said. I’ve actually found something else Woodcock wrote that I’ll try and post later.
I’m under no illusion the scene wasn’t handled as it should have been, I think  mainly because it was treated as murder/suicide early on, it was in solved mode, so mismanagement is definitely possible.
And I do get where NGB is coming from when he says JB never got a fair trial, I don’t argue that.

But I try to stay logical and focus on what can be backed up. Its the nonsense  stuff that gets posted,  I normally address,  I honestly and I’ve said it many times, I think some of it does more harm than good to Bamber.

[Rob_]

Hi Rob, yes I’ve read what Woodcock and Cook said. I’ve actually found something else Woodcock wrote that I’ll try and post later.
I’m under no illusion the scene wasn’t handled as it should have been, I think  mainly because it was treated as murder/suicide early on, it was in solved mode, so mismanagement is definitely possible.
And I do get where NGB is coming from when he says JB never got a fair trial, I don’t argue that.

But I try to stay logical and focus on what can be backed up. Its the nonsense  stuff that gets posted,  I normally address,  I honestly and I’ve said it many times, I think some of it does more harm than good to Bamber.

I find it very disturbing all the contradictions in the statements HB, I think the case is a clear MOJ but would be very happy if you could prove me wrong!

Bamber at least deserves a retrial and in my view would be a easy acquittal. 

[Cambridgecutie]

I find it very disturbing all the contradictions in the statements HB, I think the case is a clear MOJ but would be very happy if you could prove me wrong!

Bamber at least deserves a retrial and in my view would be a easy acquittal.

You can say that again!  Most of the victims, lay and professional, are deceased.

[Rob_]

You can say that again!  Most of the victims, lay and professional, are deceased.

You know what I mean Cc, when are we going to get your full details on the blood aspect of the case?

Only two of Sheila's grouping were tested twice etc. etc.

The blood in the silencer, Howard said a considerable amount was in their but only tested a small flake?

A copper and a scientist who handled the silencer never saw a scratch etc.   

[Hardy Boy]

You can say that again!  Most of the victims, lay and professional, are deceased.

Retrial will never happen… People keep saying retrial like it’s 1986. After 40 years most of the key people, victims, witnesses, officers, experts are dead anyway.

[Cambridgecutie]

Retrial will never happen… People keep saying retrial like it’s 1986. After 40 years most of the key people, victims, witnesses, officers, experts are dead anyway.

I know I was just being silly.  Not forgetting most of the exhibits have been destroyed too.

[Roch]

I have no energy or interest arguing about this case. It's not just this case it's other ones as well. I hope one day we can fathom what the hell happened. All of us.

[Cambridgecutie]

I have no energy or interest arguing about this case. It's not just this case it's other ones as well. I hope one day we can fathom what the hell happened. All of us.

You are sounding somewhat fed up Roch.  Maybe its January blues.  Perhaps you need a warm soak in the bath and an early night to recharge your batteries 

In my own mind I am happy with my JB narrative.  Other cases I've looked into include MM, Jill Dando, Rettendon murders aka Essex Boys and Luke Mitchell.  Again in my own mind I'm happy with my MM and JD narrative.  I think Jacks Whomes and Michael Steele are innocent but unsure who murdered the so-called Essex Boys.  Luke Mitchell I am undecided on.  With regard to LM I have always thought it quite remarkable that Jodie Jones' father and uncle both committed suicide.  A lot of tragedy for one family over a short time period. 

[Hardy Boy]

Hi Rob, yes I’ve read what Woodcock and Cook said. I’ve actually found something else Woodcock wrote that I’ll try and post later.
I’m under no illusion the scene wasn’t handled as it should have been, I think  mainly because it was treated as murder/suicide early on, it was in solved mode, so mismanagement is definitely possible.
And I do get where NGB is coming from when he says JB never got a fair trial, I don’t argue that.

But I try to stay logical and focus on what can be backed up. Its the nonsense  stuff that gets posted,  I normally address,  I honestly and I’ve said it many times, I think some of it does more harm than good to Bamber.

This bit from Woodcock’s own statement might actually explain the extra officers issue.
I don’t think it was trainees doing some mad training exercise,  I just think it was simply FSU support being left/called to the house because it was treated as murder/suicide from the off, it was investigation over.

Cook had the mortuary/pathologist timeline to meet,  for the afternoon, and everything looks like it was being hurried along to meet that timeline.  So extra armed support FSU being on site makes sense for security, and help in clearing and not doing training exercise games with bodies in situ like what’s being suggested.

Woodcock even says his instruction was to return to HQ, and the house was left with D/I Cook and FSU officers. That’s not a training Squad,  that’s a support Unit sent to help.

Essex Police's Force Support Unit (FSU) comprises SPECIALIST armed officers who handle serious incidents, including those requiring weapons deployment, assisting with warrants, and providing armed support for events like searches or large-scale operations, often working with Dog Units for forensic recovery and scene management. They utilize systematic approaches, sometimes involving heavy machinery and trained canine units, to secure, search, and clear complex scenes for evidence or missing persons, ensuring public safety during high-risk situations.

[Hardy Boy]

I have no energy or interest arguing about this case. It's not just this case it's other ones as well. I hope one day we can fathom what the hell happened. All of us.

Sorry to hear that Roch, I have noticed this, I don’t think we will ever know the truth, mainly because it was handled so poorly from the off?

[Hardy Boy]

I find it very disturbing all the contradictions in the statements HB, I think the case is a clear MOJ but would be very happy if you could prove me wrong!

Bamber at least deserves a retrial and in my view would be a easy acquittal.

If I could prove people wrong Rob, I’d be getting paid for it 🙈  I’m just giving my view and sticking to what can be backed up and not reaching into fantasy land to try to prove anything.

[Cambridgecutie]

This bit from Woodcock’s own statement might actually explain the extra officers issue.
I don’t think it was trainees doing some mad training exercise,  I just think it was simply FSU support being left/called to the house because it was treated as murder/suicide from the off, it was investigation over.

Cook had the mortuary/pathologist timeline to meet,  for the afternoon, and everything looks like it was being hurried along to meet that timeline.  So extra armed support FSU being on site makes sense for security, and help in clearing and not doing training exercise games with bodies in situ like what’s being suggested.

Woodcock even says his instruction was to return to HQ, and the house was left with D/I Cook and FSU officers. That’s not a training Squad,  that’s a support Unit sent to help.

Essex Police's Force Support Unit (FSU) comprises SPECIALIST armed officers who handle serious incidents, including those requiring weapons deployment, assisting with warrants, and providing armed support for events like searches or large-scale operations, often working with Dog Units for forensic recovery and scene management. They utilize systematic approaches, sometimes involving heavy machinery and trained canine units, to secure, search, and clear complex scenes for evidence or missing persons, ensuring public safety during high-risk situations.

Are there any other cases involving 5 deaths and firearms where the police have gone on to conduct some sort of training exercise when the site was still very much considered a soc and under police control?  Afaik the answer is no.  It isn't necessary because the police have designated venues with mock ups that represent the sort of soc's they will come across in their duties. 

Also training will be carried out by dedicated training officers and firearm instructors.  The police/HO will want officers trained in a very specific way that aligns with the training manual.  Trainees will need to demonstrate their competence and be signed off as competent by those responsible for training. 

[Cambridgecutie]

You know what I mean Cc, when are we going to get your full details on the blood aspect of the case?

Only two of Sheila's grouping were tested twice etc. etc.

The blood in the silencer, Howard said a considerable amount was in their but only tested a small flake?

A copper and a scientist who handled the silencer never saw a scratch etc.   

I think you might have meant Hayward?

I haven't written to JB for around a decade now.  We have very different views on his case which makes conversing difficult.  I think I might be able to assist him in a meaningful way but I am put off by what I consider to be a circus surrounding the case and the pursuing of applications with the CCRC that are never going anywhere in a month of Sundays.  Then when unsurprisingly they are rejected he still attempts to flog a dead horse by challenging the CCRC, applying for judicial review etc. 

I think he is wrong about his case and wrong about the way in which he goes about campaigning 

[Jonathan]

I think you might have meant Hayward?

I haven't written to JB for around a decade now.  We have very different views on his case which makes conversing difficult.  I think I might be able to assist him in a meaningful way but I am put off by what I consider to be a circus surrounding the case and the pursuing of applications with the CCRC that are never going anywhere in a month of Sundays.  Then when unsurprisingly they are rejected he still attempts to flog a dead horse by challenging the CCRC, applying for judicial review etc. 

I think he is wrong about his case and wrong about the way in which he goes about campaigning 

I suppose he's got to do something. I'm not sure what else there is when you factor that it needs to be something make the convictions unsafe.