Why do you think Jeremy Bamber might be / is innocent?

[BarefootDanC]

For those of you who believe he is innocent, why do you believe that?

For those of you who believe he might be, why do you believe that?

[Roch]

This is a good question Dan. It has come up before on several occasions. I will give it some thought and bullet-point.

[snow66!]

For those of you who believe he is innocent, why do you believe that?

For those of you who believe he might be, why do you believe that?

Why did the police believe he was innocent for a month Dan? Even Kennealys review of the investigation confirmed this!
Any evidence that sent JB down came after the first investigation was tied up, ie, Julie, silencer, scratch marks etc,.
Also, all doors and windows were secured from inside the Whitehouse. Sheila standing still to be shot!
Two bodies down stairs, three bodies up stairs!
The Aga burns!

[ILB]

For those of you who believe he is innocent, why do you believe that?

For those of you who believe he might be, why do you believe that?

Because I asked him and he told me so and I saw how he carried himself. To put it bluntly.

[BarefootDanC]

Why did the police believe he was innocent for a month Dan? Even Kennealys review of the investigation confirmed this!
Any evidence that sent JB down came after the first investigation was tied up, ie, Julie, silencer, scratch marks etc,.
Also, all doors and windows were secured from inside the Whitehouse. Sheila standing still to be shot!
Two bodies down stairs, three bodies up stairs!
The Aga burns!

"Why did the police believe he was innocent for a month Dan? Even Kennealys review of the investigation confirmed this!"

Because they weren't investigating the case properly and they hadn't all the blood results back from the silencer and Julie statement at this time.

"Any evidence that sent JB down came after the first investigation was tied up, ie, Julie, silencer, scratch marks etc,."

That's mostly true, but a lot of evidence which convicted him was inarguably there all along. For example:

(1) Nevill did not call the police, but Jeremy claims he called him instead and Jeremy called the police on the local number.  In other words, Jeremy's story is far-fetched.
(2) Sheila had two gun shot wounds, which is more consistent with murder than suicide
(3) Other than Jeremy's claim to having received a call from Nevill and the gun being on top of Sheila, there is no other evidence that it was her at all. No broken finger-nails, no gun residue on her nightie, relatively clean hand and feet. No evidence that she left her bedroom during the night.

Moreover, someone still needs to provide a reasonable explanation as to how the blood got in the sound moderator. How did the relatives know that Robert Boutflour's blood would be a match? If it was down to the police, why did they frame an innocent person with absolutely no motive whatsoever?

"Also, all doors and windows were secured from inside the Whitehouse."
But Jeremy proved his ability to get in and outside the house. Do we believe his story that he got into his house through the window to get his passport?

"Sheila standing still to be shot!"
Quite common for people who are about to be executed to be obedient.

"Two bodies down stairs, three bodies up stairs!"
In fact two dead bodies! Whereas Sheila was found dead upstairs! Also, no-one saw her go upstairs so a reasonable explanation is that someone mis-gendered Nevill.

"The Aga burns!"
No-one knows how or when Nevill got those burns, let alone proof that he got them from the Aga on the night of the killling. If he got them from the Aga on the night of the killings, how did Nevill then get to be precariously over a chair?? This isn't Boyce's first mad experiment!

[Jane]

"Why did the police believe he was innocent for a month Dan? Even Kennealys review of the investigation confirmed this!"

Because they weren't investigating the case properly and they hadn't all the blood results back from the silencer and Julie statement at this time.

"Any evidence that sent JB down came after the first investigation was tied up, ie, Julie, silencer, scratch marks etc,."

That's mostly true, but a lot of evidence which convicted him was inarguably there all along. For example:

(1) Nevill did not call the police, but Jeremy claims he called him instead and Jeremy called the police on the local number.  In other words, Jeremy's story is far-fetched.
(2) Sheila had two gun shot wounds, which is more consistent with murder than suicide
(3) Other than Jeremy's claim to having received a call from Nevill and the gun being on top of Sheila, there is no other evidence that it was her at all. No broken finger-nails, no gun residue on her nightie, relatively clean hand and feet. No evidence that she left her bedroom during the night.

Moreover, someone still need to provide a reasonable explanation as to how the blood got in the sound moderator. How did the relatively know that Robert Boutflour's blood would be a match? If it was down to the police, why did they frame an innocent person with absolutely no motive whatsoever?

"Also, all doors and windows were secured from inside the Whitehouse."
But Jeremy proved his ability to get in and outside the house. Do we believe his story that he got into his house through the window to get his passport?

"Sheila standing still to be shot!"
Quite common for people who are about to be executed to be obedient.

"Two bodies down stairs, three bodies up stairs!"
In fact two dead bodies! Whereas Sheila was found dead upstairs! Also, no-one saw her go upstairs so a reasonable explanation is that someone mis-gendered Nevill.

"The Aga burns!"
No-one knows how or when Nevill got those burns, let alone proof that he got them from the Aga on the night of the killling. If he got them from the Aga on the night of the killings, how did Nevill then get to be precariously over a chair?? This isn't Boyce's first mad experiment!

Explained so succinctly it could almost have been in words of one syllable. Whether, or not!, it's been fully comprehended, and/or accepted! is an entirely different matter.

[snow66!]

Explained so succinctly it could almost have been in words of one syllable. Whether, or not!, it's been fully comprehended, and/or accepted! is an entirely different matter.

Dont hold back now Jane!
Just tell Dan that I'm a dummy!

[Jane]

Dont hold back now Jane!
Just tell Dan that I'm a dummy!

Okay, Snow, if you insist. Dan, Snow has asked me to tell you he's a dummy.

[Cambridgecutie]

For those of you who believe he is innocent, why do you believe that?

For those of you who believe he might be, why do you believe that?

I thought you asked this question some time back?

1. Sheila and Jeremy were adopted from different biological families.  With the exception of Sheila's bilogical father whose identity appears to be unknown the other parents do not appear to have suffered from any mental illness or antisocial personality disorder.  The same can be said for Nevill and June's biological families.  Therefore, for me, if JB is guilty, and I do not believe he is, it begs the question how the Bamber family ended up with:

Adoptive mother - mental illness pre adoptions and continuing throughout her life requiring in-patient psychiatric care.

Adopted daughter - mental illness from early 20's requiring in-patient psychiatric care.

Adopted son - found guilty of murdering his immediate adopted family and his adopted sister's twin nephews

Given there's no genetic component the above to my mind is an anomaly.

2.  Numerous blood stained exhibits were forensically examined.  Some exhibits contained significant quantities of blood and yet none were able to produce the sort of results we are told the flake of blood inside the silencer did, despite the fact this exhibit sustained far more environmental insults than all the other exhibits. 

[BarefootDanC]

I thought you asked this question some time back?

1. Sheila and Jeremy were adopted from different biological families.  With the exception of Sheila's bilogical father whose identity appears to be unknown the other parents do not appear to have suffered from any mental illness or antisocial personality disorder.  The same can be said for Nevill and June's biological families.  Therefore, for me, if JB is guilty, and I do not believe he is, it begs the question how the Bamber family ended up with:

Adoptive mother - mental illness pre adoptions and continuing throughout her life requiring in-patient psychiatric care.

Adopted daughter - mental illness from early 20's requiring in-patient psychiatric care.

Adopted son - found guilty of murdering his immediate adopted family and his adopted sister's twin nephews

Given there's no genetic component the above to my mind is an anomaly.

2.  Numerous blood stained exhibits were forensically examined.  Some exhibits contained significant quantities of blood and yet none were able to produce the sort of results we are told the flake of blood inside the silencer did, despite the fact this exhibit sustained far more environmental insults than all the other exhibits.

RE: 1

This is interesting, but I don't know what you are suggesting is the reason. Also, how does this point away from Jeremy being a murderer?

RE: 2

How come neither of the expert witnesses called by the defence questioned this, if it was unlikely that those results could have been obtained from a blood flake?

[Cambridgecutie]

RE: 1

This is interesting, but I don't know what you are suggesting is the reason. Also, how does this point away from Jeremy being a murderer?

It is my belief Sheila suffered an attachment disorder.  I did a lot of research into this years ago:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213414001458

RE: 2

How come neither of the expert witnesses called by the defence questioned this, if it was unlikely that those results could have been obtained from a blood flake?

Which experts are you referring to? 

[BarefootDanC]

It is my belief Sheila suffered an attachment disorder.  I did a lot of research into this years ago:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213414001458

RE: 2

How come neither of the expert witnesses called by the defence questioned this, if it was unlikely that those results could have been obtained from a blood flake?


Which experts are you referring to?

1) So how does this point away from Jeremy?

2) Dr Patrick at the trial and Mark Webster for the 2002 appeal.

[Cambridgecutie]

1) So how does this point away from Jeremy?

Because June suffered severe depression requiring in-patient psychiatric care and electroconvulsive treatment in 1959 when SC was around 2 years of age when attachments are formed.  This situation does not arise with JB.

2) Dr Patrick at the trial and Mark Webster for the 2002 appeal.

A blood flake the size of the one claimed might have been able to produce the results claimed if it had not been subjected to the enviroments it had to withstand.  Maybe the experts just focused on what was in front of them and did not consider the environments.  Dr Lincoln's reports do not show that he considered the environnments.  He was not a forensic scientist as you would expect to find working in a FSP today.  He was a lecturer in blood serology working in a teaching hospital. 

[Rob_]

"Why did the police believe he was innocent for a month Dan? Even Kennealys review of the investigation confirmed this!"

Because they weren't investigating the case properly and they hadn't all the blood results back from the silencer and Julie statement at this time.

"Any evidence that sent JB down came after the first investigation was tied up, ie, Julie, silencer, scratch marks etc,."

That's mostly true, but a lot of evidence which convicted him was inarguably there all along. For example:

(1) Nevill did not call the police, but Jeremy claims he called him instead and Jeremy called the police on the local number.  In other words, Jeremy's story is far-fetched.
(2) Sheila had two gun shot wounds, which is more consistent with murder than suicide
(3) Other than Jeremy's claim to having received a call from Nevill and the gun being on top of Sheila, there is no other evidence that it was her at all. No broken finger-nails, no gun residue on her nightie, relatively clean hand and feet. No evidence that she left her bedroom during the night.

Moreover, someone still needs to provide a reasonable explanation as to how the blood got in the sound moderator. How did the relatives know that Robert Boutflour's blood would be a match? If it was down to the police, why did they frame an innocent person with absolutely no motive whatsoever?

"Also, all doors and windows were secured from inside the Whitehouse."
But Jeremy proved his ability to get in and outside the house. Do we believe his story that he got into his house through the window to get his passport?

"Sheila standing still to be shot!"
Quite common for people who are about to be executed to be obedient.

"Two bodies down stairs, three bodies up stairs!"
In fact two dead bodies! Whereas Sheila was found dead upstairs! Also, no-one saw her go upstairs so a reasonable explanation is that someone mis-gendered Nevill.

"The Aga burns!"
No-one knows how or when Nevill got those burns, let alone proof that he got them from the Aga on the night of the killling. If he got them from the Aga on the night of the killings, how did Nevill then get to be precariously over a chair?? This isn't Boyce's first mad experiment!

No evidence Sheila had slept in her bed that night, she was obviously out of the room at some point!

There must have been gunshot residue on Sheila's nightie: two shots fired from inches away

Bamber could get into the house but he could not secure the window (secondary latch) from outside when leaving. Taff's statement confirmed all windows were secure.

Sheila would have resisted as her children were in the house.

Someone got lucky with the blood group matching Sheila's, they probably thought any human blood in the silencer would be sufficient.

[snow66!]

No evidence Sheila had slept in her bed that night, she was obviously out of the room at some point!

There must have been gunshot residue on Sheila's nightie: two shots fired from inches away

Bamber could get into the house but he could not secure the window (secondary latch) from outside when leaving. Taff's statement confirmed all windows were secure.

Sheila would have resisted as her children were in the house.

Someone got lucky with the blood group matching Sheila's, they probably thought any human blood in the silencer would be sufficient.

Yes, well said Rob!