Proof that Sheila was only shot once in bedroom whilst she was standing upright

[mike tesko]

Police created the impression in the minds of the jurors that there was no relevant bloodstain evidence on the bedroom carpet that could help determine exactly how Sheila had come to die in the bedroom - so that Sheila's body was just found there with two wounds to her neck/throat, and the gun hastily arranged on her body, like thus:-

One thing seems almost certain, and that is that Sheila was not laid down or back when she was shot and killed in the bedroom - so why did the prosecutions case suggest that she could have been?

[grahameb]

I wish somehow we could access that other photo that shows Sheila on the bed.

[mike tesko]

Another puzzling feature of this case, is that although the prosecution set out to prove that Jeremy Bamber shot and killed Sheila and that he went on to stage manage her body to make it look like a suicide, they did not go any way towards explaining how he was supposed to have shot her twice in the bedroom?

This is a most peculiar feature, considering that when the police were dealing with this matter as four murders and a suicide, they were advocating that the second shot had gone off within a split second of the first, by a process of recoil?

Recoil?

Well, I am sorry but I fail to see how the police could arrive at such a conclusion considering that there is only one circular trail of blood that landed on the bedroom carpet as a result of the shot under the chin that killed Sheila, when she was stood upright, so how did the gun manage to find its way to the correct angle to enable the second shot to become discharged into the side of Sheila's neck, and then she fell supposedly onto the bedroom flood with the rifle on top of her and her right hand conveniently resting on the gun?

I can't for the life of me, imagine any set of circumstances where the police could have been driven to such a conclusion, if they found Sheila's body like that shown in the crime scene photogeraphs, with the solitary circular bloodstain on the bedroom carpet, and the gun on her body and her hand on the gun - oh, and then for the bible to fall so conveniently upon the upper and outer right arm, so that it Rather conveniently covered up a significant bloodstain beneath it on the bedroom carpet?

Surely, the police can't blame Jeremy for them coming to such conclusions considering all the evidence that was available to them at the material time? I am sorry I do not buy into that fairy story, Essex police are lying...

I have seen the photograph of Sheila on the bed, and so I know they moved and stage managed the body on the bedroom floor, and that they then blamed Jeremy for doing what they themselves were / are responsible for doing...

THE POLICE STAGE MANAGED SHEILA's BODY IN THE BEDROOM (fact)...

[Roch]

I still think that those blood trails down her arm could be caused when she possibly tried to staunch the blood coming from the first would in her neck?

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Me too...

So you are both now persuing the belief that she did not shoot herself? Unless you are absolutely certain the police shot her then this would seem to be a dangerous avenue to go down for a couple of pro-Bambers!

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The blood trails on Sheila's right forearm could have got there, when she used the fingers of her right hand to hold against the initial wound to the side of the neck, in keeping with Professor McDonnell's conclusions in one of his earlier reports - irrespective of whether she shot herself, or if somebody else shot her...

The poses adopted by Amy Holland, in the attached photographs would produce the circular bloodstain that was found on the bedroom carpet, from the wound u nder the chin...

I had thought the circular pattern on the floor was due to her having stood in that area with the first non-fatal wound bleeding.  Where does this leave the 'on the bed' scenario?

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If circular bloodstain on bedroom carpet was made when Sheila received the non fatal shot to the side of the neck and fell back onto the bed, that would mean that when the police found Sheila downstiars at 7:37am, onwards, upon entry into the farmhouse, that she had already been killed and was dead at that time?

How then, would she have managed to get upstarts to lay down  on the bed, or the bedroom floor, or be in a position to receive the non fatal shot at all in the bedroom, since, if you are dead downstiars in the region of the kitchen, you could not very well walk upstairs and shoot yourself non fatally in the side of the neck afterwards...

Not received Mike.  I wondered if she had been dripping spots of blood from the initial wound, simply because it was bleeding and she was standing in that area.  I had envisaged Sheila turning around in a rough circular motion, perhaps dazed.  Hence the rough circular pattern of spots.  Admittedly, I'm not that strong on the blood pattern evidence and Hartley has used it as a counter argument to the logs on entry. 

[mike tesko]

Reconstruction of Sheila shooting herself under the chin using rifle (minus silencer)

Notice grip of left hand holding the barrel of the gun, and take this into account regarding the position and shape of Sheila Caffells left hand which appears to be frozen in cadaveric spasm consistent with her holding the barrel of the gun in a similar fashion at the time she shot herself...

[Enigma]

What poses could Sheila have adopted if she shot herself whilst stood upright?

Here are views of model, Amy Holland, stood upright with silencer attached to barrel of gun, to demonstrate that evidence given to jury about length of weapon being much too long to allow Sheila an opportunity  to shoot herself by use of it, so configured was inaccurate, and misleading...

Why was this reenactment done with the silencer on? She can't have killed herself with the silencer on and then taken it off and put it in the gun cupboard, so surely the defence should have just persued the argument that the silencer wasn't on the gun when she shot herself?

Good obvious point Bob .... silly photographs

[Roch]

What poses could Sheila have adopted if she shot herself whilst stood upright?

Here are views of model, Amy Holland, stood upright with silencer attached to barrel of gun, to demonstrate that evidence given to jury about length of weapon being much too long to allow Sheila an opportunity  to shoot herself by use of it, so configured was inaccurate, and misleading...

Why was this reenactment done with the silencer on? She can't have killed herself with the silencer on and then taken it off and put it in the gun cupboard, so surely the defence should have just persued the argument that the silencer wasn't on the gun when she shot herself?

Good obvious point Bob .... silly photographs

Enigma, once you allow yourself to consider that the defence has been engaged upon a struggle to piece together what happened on 7th August 1985, the photographs will not appear silly.

[mike tesko]

What poses could Sheila have adopted if she shot herself whilst stood upright?

Here are views of model, Amy Holland, stood upright with silencer attached to barrel of gun, to demonstrate that evidence given to jury about length of weapon being much too long to allow Sheila an opportunity  to shoot herself by use of it, so configured was inaccurate, and misleading...

Why was this reenactment done with the silencer on? She can't have killed herself with the silencer on and then taken it off and put it in the gun cupboard, so surely the defence should have just persued the argument that the silencer wasn't on the gun when she shot herself?

Good obvious point Bob .... silly photographs

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Not silly photographs, since the experiments were carried out with a silencer attached, and not attached - it was ridiculous of the prosecution to allege that the weapon would have been too long to allow Sheila an opportunity to shoot herself even if she had wanted too, because the weapon so configured would have been much too long. Well, these experiments proved that such a claim was inaccurate and misleading. The prosecutions case relied upon this suggestion to suggest to the jury that if the silencer was used, Sheila could not very well have shot herself, and that Jeremy must have shot sheila, and then removed the silencer, but the Amy Holland experiments established this argument to be a false one...

With the silencer attached, Sheila could still have adopted several poses and shot herself, not that I am saying she did, only that it was possible...

[Enigma]

This just wreaks of desperation ....... that 'model' drapped over the rifle is just distasteful. Never mind the fact that Sheila would have had to contort herself like a chimp to do that and without mentioning she would have had to do that with a high powered rifle bullet wound already in here neck!

Bamber didn't kill Sheila with the first shot, much to his shock no doubt; he had to do it again with a contact wound shot under the chin.

These distasteful photos just highlight how rediculous it would be for Sheila to shoot herself in the neck TWICE  with a weapon like that; once almost horizontally and a non contact wound (Bamber took his best shot) and once a perfect contact wound shot under the chin. The second shot is perfect because Bamber had incapacitated poor Sheila with the first shot.

Shame on whoever arranged for these appalling photos to be taken.   

[mike tesko]

This just wreaks of desperation ....... that 'model' drapped over the rifle is just distasteful. Never mind the fact that Sheila would have had to contort herself like a chimp to do that and without mentioning she would have had to do that with a high powered rifle bullet wound already in here neck!

Bamber didn't kill Sheila with the first shot, much to his shock no doubt; he had to do it again with a contact wound shot under the chin.

These distasteful photos just highlight how rediculous it would be for Sheila to shoot herself in the neck TWICE  with a weapon like that; once almost horizontally and a non contact wound (Bamber took his best shot) and once a perfect contact wound shot under the chin. The second shot is perfect because Bamber had incapacitated poor Sheila with the first shot.

Shame on whoever arranged for these appalling photos to be taken.

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You people don't like it when someone looks into things deeply - lets take a look at what members of the firearms team said to COLP during their interviews in 1991, they confirm that Sheila's body appears to have been moved and that the position of her body in the crime scene photographs was not the same position they saw the body in when they got into the house?

Well, you have got it from the horses mouth, so to speak, the firearms officers are saying the body of Sheila was stage managed after they left the scene...

There is no blood trail on the bedroom carpet to remotely suggest that Sheila was shot twice in the bedroom..

THE POLICE ARE EVEN SAYING HER BODY WAS STAGE MANAGED BEFORE THE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN - and yet at court the false prosecution case blamed Jeremy for doing it...

[Enigma]

This has all been reviewed umpteen times by professional judges and found to be unfounded defence speculation .... Sheila could not have shot herself in the neck TWICE with a high powered rifle ..... the second shot perfect because she wasn't a moving target for Bamber.

That is my opinion!

Oh and it's the opinion of the jury, the judge, the police, the soco's, the cps, the appeal courts, the ccrc and all the family who knew Sheila and Bamber, Bamber's girlfriend, the twins father ...... and the public in general aren't exactly up in arms, protesting for Bamber to be freed are they!

 

[mike tesko]

This has all been reviewed umpteen times by professional judges and found to be unfounded defence speculation .... Sheila could not have shot herself in the neck TWICE with a high powered rifle ..... the second shot perfect because she wasn't a moving target for Bamber.

That is my opinion!

Oh and it's the opinion of the jury, the judge, the police, the soco's, the cps, the appeal courts, the ccrc and all the family who knew Sheila and Bamber, Bamber's girlfriend, the twins father ...... and the public in general aren't exactly up in arms, protesting for Bamber to be freed are they!

 

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What a load of crap - most iof tbhis new material has not yet been considered by anybody so I don't agree with anything you say - and in any event, the police did stage manage the scene before PC BIRD (SOC) started to take his pictures at 10am, It is as plain as a pike staff that the police set out to cover something up that they did wrong, and they blamed Jeremy for doing the things they were responsible for doing, which effectively helped to get him convicted...

The police cannot go around stage managing crime scenes and be allowed to get away with it, no wonder they are withholding thousands and thousands of documents under pii, they are evil and corrupt to go to those lengths knowing that they ended up framing someone who did not have anything at all to do with any of these five deaths...

The criminal justice system which convicted Jeremy Bamber for these murders is corrupt, if it refuses to take the appropriate action and quash these convictions...

Everyone knows the silencer evidence is dodgy and that the relatives scratched the aga with it, before they handed it to the police...

Everyone knows the police stage manage the crime scene and moved the bodies...

Its absolutely disgusting, and so are those who maintain that the police and the relatives did nothing wrong with a view to securing these convictions against an innocent man......

[clifford]

This has all been reviewed umpteen times by professional judges and found to be unfounded defence speculation .... Sheila could not have shot herself in the neck TWICE with a high powered rifle ..... the second shot perfect because she wasn't a moving target for Bamber.

That is my opinion!

Oh and it's the opinion of the jury, the judge, the police, the soco's, the cps, the appeal courts, the ccrc and all the family who knew Sheila and Bamber, Bamber's girlfriend, the twins father ...... and the public in general aren't exactly up in arms, protesting for Bamber to be freed are they!

 

Pay attention. It is not suggested that Sheila shot hersellf twice with a high powered weapon.
It is being suggested that the first shot was a low powered weapon.
Never mind the opinion of all that lot you mentioned. If they did not have the facts, how can they make a balanced opinion.
The trouble with you anti's is you cannot see the wood for the trees.

[grahameb]

Cliff, am I right in assuming that the .22 semi automatic weapon is not a high powered rifle? If it was the final bullet would surely have gone right through her?

[Enigma]

This has all been reviewed umpteen times by professional judges and found to be unfounded defence speculation .... Sheila could not have shot herself in the neck TWICE with a high powered rifle ..... the second shot perfect because she wasn't a moving target for Bamber.

That is my opinion!

Oh and it's the opinion of the jury, the judge, the police, the soco's, the cps, the appeal courts, the ccrc and all the family who knew Sheila and Bamber, Bamber's girlfriend, the twins father ...... and the public in general aren't exactly up in arms, protesting for Bamber to be freed are they!

 

Pay attention. It is not suggested that Sheila shot hersellf twice with a high powered weapon.
It is being suggested that the first shot was a low powered weapon.
Never mind the opinion of all that lot you mentioned. If they did not have the facts, how can they make a balanced opinion.
The trouble with you anti's is you cannot see the wood for the trees.

Conspiracy after conspiracy .... liar after liar ..... it is hard to see the wood for the trees on this forum as it is swamped with smoke and mirror theories that have all been rejected by court after court; by independent judge after judge.