When told his family were dead - Jeremy accused police of killing them...

[Enigma]

Mike have you ever even considered that Bamber actually killed them?
It's abhorent to accuse the police of killing Sheila without one iota of proof. Brave police officers responding to a possible life threatening armed incident are be blamed for killing Sheila and covering it up!
It is frankly ridiculous and insulting to the police who are there TO PROTECT LIFES!
You have no proof of this whatsoever. If the police had killed Sheila why would they need to cover it up .... she had killed 4 people according to this ridiculous anyone but Bamber theory; they could easily of explained why it was necessry to shoot someone who had just murdered 4 people!
Why would they cover it up?

[Roch]

I think he did suspect Jeremy Bamber was guilty when he first went in to prison.  Nobody knows exactly what happened inside the farmhouse.  But if you are basing what may have happened purely on assumptions about the general role of uniformed services...

[Enigma]

Mike do you believe the Police shot Sheila.
For once Mike answer a direct question; do you think the police shot Sheila as this thread implies you believe?

[Enigma]

I think he did suspect Jeremy Bamber was guilty when he first went in to prison.  Nobody knows exactly what happened inside the farmhouse.  But if you are basing what may have happened purely on assumptions about the general role of uniformed services...

Based on what the police said and did yes and the fact that Sheila could not have killed all her family then herself!

[mike tesko]

Mike do you believe the Police shot Sheila.
For once Mike answer a direct question; do you think the police shot Sheila as this thread implies you believe?

------------

Although I am assured by David Shaw that the police did not shoot Sheila, I am 20/80% in favor that police shot her, only on the basis that they substituted bullet PV/20 (the non fatal shot)...

It puzzles me why they substituted that bullet?

[holly_girl]

Enigma,
Yes I agree it sounds like a lot of nonsense to me. Why would police shoot Sheila and then cover it up and then blame Jeremy? You are absolutely right to question this, it is obsurd and has no credence whatsoever. What I am trying to figure out is why someone would anyone want to make up this concoction? Even the extremely gullible would have trouble believing it.
Maybe it is utter desparation on the part of the person who came up with it?

[mike tesko]

Enigma,
Yes I agree it sounds like a lot of nonsense to me. Why would police shoot Sheila and then cover it up and then blame Jeremy? You are absolutely right to question this, it is obsurd and has no credence whatsoever. What I am trying to figure out is why someone would anyone want to make up this concoction? Even the extremely gullible would have trouble believing it.
Maybe it is utter desparation on the part of the person who came up with it?

----------------

If the police substitute a fragmented bullet (the original PV/20) for a whole bullet, (the substituted bullet PV/20) to enable the ballistic expert to conclude that it was fired via the Bamber rifle, it is not absurd for anyone to assume/presume that the police played some role in Sheila's death in the bedroom, albeit, directly or indirectly, in my opinion...

It is very easy for someone to make comments like you have, but where is your proof that if the police did substitute the original bullet (PV/20) which was described as a fragmented bullet by the pathologist on 7th August 1985,  that became transformed into a whole bullet, by the time the ballistic expert received it on 20th September 1985, was not connected to the circumstances of how Sheila came to die in the main bedroom at whf?

[chochokeira]

When told his family were dead - Jeremy accused police of killing them

The suggestion that Jeremy put the idea that Sheila killed everyone and that she then killed herself, into the minds of the police, is ridiculous and totally untrue...

Jeremy accused the police of shooting dead his family, including Sheila...

That's true but why did he not persist in this accusation in the aftermath of the killings? How did he also end up buying the four murders and a suicide scenario?

Jeremy was prescribed Valium for a couple of weeks following the murders, this would have messed up his emotional responses and would have sent him deeper into denial.

My mother was on Valium following my father's sudden death when they were still a young couple. My mother was devoted to my father and was devastated by his death, yet - just like Jeremy, who was accused of inappropriate and callous responses to his family's deaths - she giggled like a teenager, showed little other emotion and behaved completely out of character while on Valium.

Did the Valium blot out Jeremy's initial belief that the police killed his family or his will to take this initial complaint further?

[mike tesko]

Is it being suggested that the police did not substitute a fragmented bullet (PV/20) for a whole bullet (PV/20) in the interim period between 7th August 1985, and 20th September 1985?

If so, where is your proof?

[mike tesko]

If the police substituted the original bullet, PV/20, which was fragmented as of 7th August 1985, but which had become transformed into a whole bullet by 20th September 1985, which enabled the ballistic expert to associate it as having been fired via the Bamber rifle, why is it absurd, and why would it require someone who was extremely gullible to think or to be persuaded that the police shot and killed Sheila in the bedroom?

What kind of logic are you relying on, then?

[mike tesko]

Mike have you ever even considered that Bamber actually killed them?
It's abhorent to accuse the police of killing Sheila without one iota of proof. Brave police officers responding to a possible life threatening armed incident are be blamed for killing Sheila and covering it up!
It is frankly ridiculous and insulting to the police who are there TO PROTECT LIFES!
You have no proof of this whatsoever. If the police had killed Sheila why would they need to cover it up .... she had killed 4 people according to this ridiculous anyone but Bamber theory; they could easily of explained why it was necessry to shoot someone who had just murdered 4 people!
Why would they cover it up?

------------------

Yes, I started out thinking that Bamber was guilty, which is the way I look at all the cases I become involved in, I Start off from that point of view and look for any evidence or information which might tend to contradict that view - in Bambers case, there as overwhelming evidence to suggest that he did not kill anyone...

[clifford]

Enigma,
Yes I agree it sounds like a lot of nonsense to me. Why would police shoot Sheila and then cover it up and then blame Jeremy? You are absolutely right to question this, it is obsurd and has no credence whatsoever. What I am trying to figure out is why someone would anyone want to make up this concoction? Even the extremely gullible would have trouble believing it.
Maybe it is utter desparation on the part of the person who came up with it?

OK HG, can you explain why EP would want to move ,or reposition the rifle, and it is a fact they did, because they admitted doing so . Why.
If JB committed this crime do you think he was alone.
You see half answers are not enough. We all have opinions which are not worth a  monkies.
Proof is what we need, not assumptions.
You are entitled to your opinions, but that is all it is assumption.
I find it quite alarming that a number of anti's have joined the forum of late, could it be they are flapping about the latest appeal, or are they fed up with agreeing with each other on the other site.
I'm watching.

[grahameb]

Abs and Andrea have described similar, apparently indifferent reactions to the loss of their loved ones. Throwing us into such shock and denial is the well documented manner with which the brain protects us from the initial, unbearable pain of bereavement.

When my stepfather died in the night my mother was in so much shock she couldn't even think and this made her incapable of walking or looking after herself. She had to stay with us. My wife had just given birth to our daughter and I had to delay her coming home from the hospital and my mother had to sleep in the same room as my son who was still only 2 years old. So I had to deal with all this as well as having my wife and a new baby to look after.
Man I don't know how I nanaged it. My mother was completely out of her mind and had to be prescribed Valium. That is a mind deadening drug and I'm glad its not so popular nowadays.

[nugnug]

Enigma,
Yes I agree it sounds like a lot of nonsense to me. Why would police shoot Sheila and then cover it up and then blame Jeremy? You are absolutely right to question this, it is obsurd and has no credence whatsoever. What I am trying to figure out is why someone would anyone want to make up this concoction? Even the extremely gullible would have trouble believing it.
Maybe it is utter desparation on the part of the person who came up with it?

fair point but what if they had shot someone else in there.

[smiffy]

Enigma,
Yes I agree it sounds like a lot of nonsense to me. Why would police shoot Sheila and then cover it up and then blame Jeremy? You are absolutely right to question this, it is obsurd and has no credence whatsoever. What I am trying to figure out is why someone would anyone want to make up this concoction? Even the extremely gullible would have trouble believing it.
Maybe it is utter desparation on the part of the person who came up with it?

oh so holly-girl is unable to figure something out.....maybe thats because she/he is not too bright

when investigating we should look at all possibilities....it would be unwise and unsafe not to.

we let the evidence guide us and look at ALL the evidence and not just selected parts that fit a nice comfortable story and ignore the rest..
it should all tally together..

as of the moment on all the evidence available I come to teh conclusion through sound reasoning of all that is available to me that Sheila killed the other 4 and than then she was shot by a police officer  and it was then covered up.
As soon as the first lie was delivered over the radio about a suicide then the police would be in a big mess in then trying to backtrack and claim it was an accidental shooting ..even if it was...as futher crimes were commited as soon as the suicide lies were made.


To me the firearms team took far too long from entry to declaring safe  for a building of that size for the operation to have gone smoothly and correctly.
This excess of time to me supports the view that something had gone wrong when they entered..ie someone shot Sheila and the excess of time taken is down to them then figuring out and carrying out te first elements of a cover up.