Police Fitting Up Suspects

[snow66!]

Nevills's injuries from the gunshots are listed under 'Gunshot Wounds' in Vanezis's report but he also lists 'Other' External Injuries on Nevill's head and neck.

But of course he does Zoso!
What of it?
Nevill was beaten and shot,I understand that!

[snow66!]

Wev'e got one poster telling us Rifle stocks don't break easy and another saying rifle stocks do break easy, Do they or Don't they?

I will bow to Robs knowledge of guns HB!
Its just that I would have thought a blow to the head causing that amount of damage to the stock would have killed Nevill,let alone knock him out!
At what stage do you think the blow was made to Nevill that damaged the stock so badly?

[Jane]

Only one scenario fits with the phone call to JB and the Aga burns Jane!

Sounds like you're prepared to label PV a liar. Have you actually read what he says. There was absolute disquiet about the whole thing from the word go, ie, he was prevented from visiting the scene. He was told, over the phone that it was murder/suicide but found such didn't exactly fit. He never said it was impossible for a two shot suicide to happen, but he cast real doubts. Then, of course, the gunshots are listed separately from the head wounds..........

[Hardy Boy]

I will bow to Robs knowledge of guns HB!
Its just that I would have thought a blow to the head causing that amount of damage to the stock would have killed Nevill,let alone knock him out!
At what stage do you think the blow was made to Nevill that damaged the stock so badly?

When the struggle took place, i think Neville obviously took the four shots upstairs and it weakened him, Bamber had ran out of bullets or he would have finished him off at this stage, Neville made his way downstairs to either arm himself or make a phone call, or to stop Bamber reloading, that's when Bamber used the rifle as the the weapon to attack him.

Neville defended himself with his arm from the rifle being used like this and would have been retreating, i think the last hit was the one to the head as Neville's arm defence weakened and left him exposed was the point the stock got damaged, either hitting his head or a follow through and it hit the floor, and it severely stunned him, to the point he had to sit in the chair, Bamber then had time to reload and finish him off in this position?  Anyway, roughly that's my opinion, i could obviously be wrong

[Cambridgecutie]

When the struggle took place, i think Neville obviously took the four shots upstairs and it weakened him, Bamber had ran out of bullets or he would have finished him off at this stage, Neville made his way downstairs to either arm himself or make a phone call, or to stop Bamber reloading, that's when Bamber used the rifle as the the weapon to attack him.

Neville defended himself with his armsform the rifle being used like this and would have been retreating, i think the last hit was the one to the head as Neville's arm's defence weakened and left him exposed was the point the stock got damaged, either hitting his head or a follow through and it hit the floor, and it severely stunned him, to the point he had to sit in the chair, Bamber then had time to reload and finish him off in this position?  Anyway, roughly that's my opinion, i could obviously be wrong

Arm.The pathologist said one of the gunshot wounds sustained outside the kitchen caused total loss of use of his left arm. 

I would imagine a forensic scientist could calculate the pressure required to break the stock but not sure what the point would be.  And in any event how can any of us know for sure it hadn't sustained some damage beforehand?

[Hardy Boy]

Arm.The pathologist said one of the gunshot wounds sustained outside the kitchen caused total loss of use of his left arm. 

I would imagine a forensic scientist could calculate the pressure required to break the stock but not sure what the point would be.  And in any event how can any of us know for sure it hadn't sustained some damage beforehand?

I have altered my post from Arm's to Arm, his Arm was used to defend himself.  I'M still open to him using both, i damaged my rotary Cuff, which required a operation, i could not lift my arm, i did on occasions with great pain to help myself,  it's surprising sometimes the strength you find.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7638.0;attach=44911;image

[snow66!]

When the struggle took place, i think Neville obviously took the four shots upstairs and it weakened him, Bamber had ran out of bullets or he would have finished him off at this stage, Neville made his way downstairs to either arm himself or make a phone call, or to stop Bamber reloading, that's when Bamber used the rifle as the the weapon to attack him.

Neville defended himself with his arm from the rifle being used like this and would have been retreating, i think the last hit was the one to the head as Neville's arm defence weakened and left him exposed was the point the stock got damaged, either hitting his head or a follow through and it hit the floor, and it severely stunned him, to the point he had to sit in the chair, Bamber then had time to reload and finish him off in this position?  Anyway, roughly that's my opinion, i could obviously be wrong

Yes,from a guilt perspective,that sounds about right HB!

[David1819]

I will bow to Robs knowledge of guns HB!
Its just that I would have thought a blow to the head causing that amount of damage to the stock would have killed Nevill,let alone knock him out!
At what stage do you think the blow was made to Nevill that damaged the stock so badly?

To say it was "damaged badly" is an exaggeration. You can barley see it on the photos. The part that came off had a large metal screw going through it, so the wood was rather thin in that area.

[snow66!]

Sounds like you're prepared to label PV a liar. Have you actually read what he says. There was absolute disquiet about the whole thing from the word go, ie, he was prevented from visiting the scene. He was told, over the phone that it was murder/suicide but found such didn't exactly fit. He never said it was impossible for a two shot suicide to happen, but he cast real doubts. Then, of course, the gunshots are listed separately from the head wounds..........

Yes thankyou Jane, I have actually read Vanezis autopsy reports and trial evidence.
The most striking aspect for me is how deadly the two face shots to the jaw would have been!

[snow66!]

To say it was "damaged badly" is an exaggeration. You can barley see it on the photos. The part that came off had a large metal screw going through it, so the wood was rather thin in that area.

The stock was badly cracked around the trigger area Dave!

[Adam]

Yes thankyou Jane, I have actually read Vanezis autopsy reports and trial evidence.
The most striking aspect for me is how deadly the two face shots to the jaw would have been!

How long do you think Nevill's kitchen beating lasted?

He had 40+ bruises and lacerations. On his head, face, arms, torso and legs.

Bamber had no injuries.

The attack would have been continuous, high tempo with forceful blows in quick succession.

[Jane]

Yes thankyou Jane, I have actually read Vanezis autopsy reports and trial evidence.
The most striking aspect for me is how deadly the two face shots to the jaw would have been!

Indeed so. But they weren't responsible for the head wound and he wouldn't have been able to speak. Hideous situation. Poor man.

[Adam]

Nevill was able to get to one of the 3 stairs after his 4 shots upstairs. Either through the box room or main bedroom door.

This was because Bamber could not catch him or wanted to wait & see if Nevill collapsed upstairs. He wanted to avoid a physical confrontation.

On the stairs Bamber would not attack him as he could end up falling down the stairs himself.

Once both in the kitchen, he knew he had to attack him with the empty rifle.

[snow66!]

How long do you think Nevill's kitchen beating lasted?

He had 40+ bruises and lacerations. On his head, face, arms, torso and legs.

Bamber had no injuries.

The attack would have been continuous, high tempo with forceful blows in quick succession.

Lasted Adam?
I dont know!
A strike every couple of seconds, two or three minutes or so?
What do you think?

[Hardy Boy]

Yes,from a guilt perspective,that sounds about right HB!

It's not just a guilt perspective Snow, iv'e just followed the evidence.  He's found slumped in a chair, there is a broken off rifle stock on the floor, he has a external fracture to the skull caused by some instrument hitting his Skull, he has defensive injuries to his Arm, the raid team saw what must have been a violent struggle in the Kitchen..............................................What else would you want me to Conclude from this evidence?