Police Fitting Up Suspects

[Cambridgecutie]

If you want to post about something dismissed by the COA over 20 years ago & not in the current CCRC submission, feel free.

You made ref to the 17/20 bands from the CoA 2002.  I responded in kind. 

Its obvious the current CCRC submission is going nowhere.  Its not necessary to have all the detail.  We can see from the brief outline it does not come close to meeting the criteria set out in S23 criminal appeals.

[snow66!]

Evidence of what?  That a phone call was made or wasn't made?

CC (that's Colin Caffell) until JM paid him a visit a month later.  JB's former girlfriend and her children.  The manager of Caribbean Cottage,  manager of snooker hall, business people who visited the farm. 

In the US where gun crime is rife.  Pre school children shoot their parents.  The victims were not shot once in the head.  NB sustained 6 gunshot wounds to the head, June 2, DC 5 and NC 3.

He had access to soc images before finalising his pm reports and pre trial.

What force is required to break the a part of the stock? 

NB and perp were seperated by a LR, that's a long rifle, and the rifle only contained blood stains that were insufficient in quantity for grouping so that should tell you all you need to know in this regard.  It should also tell you the 1/4" flake is bogus when you consider the stains on the rifle were far greater than the 1/4" flake which was able to produce groupings for AK, EAP and HP.

The rifle probably hit the top of the Aga and shattered Cutie, not Nevills head!
Rifle stocks dont break easy, soldiers were trained to use them on the enemy!
The butt hit an unmovable object once Nevill was lying on the floor with his back against the Aga!
Hence the rifle wasn't covered in blood from Nevills head!

[Hardy Boy]

The rifle probably hit the top of the Aga and shattered Cutie, not Nevills head!
Rifle stocks dont break easy, soldiers were trained to use them on the enemy!
The butt hit an unmovable object once Nevill was lying on the floor with his back against the Aga!
Hence the rifle wasn't covered in blood from Nevills head!

I suppose Sheila had read up on this and thought about using Army tactics if all else failed.

 So what knocked Neveille out for three hours now then?  Have you got photo's of the marks on the AGA to show the rifle Butt broke on top of the AGA and Shattered?  How would it be COVERED in Blood, it was probably in contact with his head for a fraction of a second and Broke off, it never shattered into pieces did it?

[snow66!]

I suppose Sheila had read up on this and thought about using Army tactics if all else failed.

 So what knocked Neveille out for three hours now then?  Have you got photo's of the marks on the AGA to show the rifle Butt broke on top of the AGA and Shattered?  How would it be COVERED in Blood, it was probably in contact with his head for a fraction of a second and Broke off, it never shattered into pieces did it?

Nevill was indeed knocked out with the rifle butt HB, but his head was not made of stone,hence the stock/butt was not damaged until Nevill was on the floor and the rifle struck the Aga.
Appart from a piece splintering off,the stock was split and cracked around the trigger area!
The rifle was badly damaged.

[Zoso]

Evidence of what?  That a phone call was made or wasn't made?

CC (that's Colin Caffell) until JM paid him a visit a month later.  JB's former girlfriend and her children.  The manager of Caribbean Cottage,  manager of snooker hall, business people who visited the farm. 

In the US where gun crime is rife.  Pre school children shoot their parents.  The victims were not shot once in the head.  NB sustained 6 gunshot wounds to the head, June 2, DC 5 and NC 3.

He had access to soc images before finalising his pm reports and pre trial.

What force is required to break the a part of the stock? 

NB and perp were seperated by a LR, that's a long rifle, and the rifle only contained blood stains that were insufficient in quantity for grouping so that should tell you all you need to know in this regard.  It should also tell you the 1/4" flake is bogus when you consider the stains on the rifle were far greater than the 1/4" flake which was able to produce groupings for AK, EAP and HP.

What you should have said was that there were a few people who spoke well of Jeremy!

In the US children are TAUGHT how to use guns because they are a fact of life. How many of the shootings were carried out with a .22 semi auto rifle that said kids had never used before? Why are you telling how many times the victims were shot? You think after all this time I need to be told? You're the one who said Jeremy would have shot the victims once in the head - and IF (by an unbelievable stretch of the imagination - he was innocent) - what would he have done with Sheila? Or how would he have avoided being made a suspect?

Looking at photographs is nothing like being at the scene!

It would take great force to break the stock but given you've set yourself up and M's Forensic Queen of Blue - why don't you do an experiment and post your findings?

As for the last point - by remark was about the scientists in FFS not the silencer!

[Zoso]

The rifle probably hit the top of the Aga and shattered Cutie, not Nevills head!
Rifle stocks dont break easy, soldiers were trained to use them on the enemy!
The butt hit an unmovable object once Nevill was lying on the floor with his back against the Aga!
Hence the rifle wasn't covered in blood from Nevills head!

I guess you aren't familiar with the damage to Nevill's head. I'd would read up on that if I were you.

[Zoso]

Nevill was indeed knocked out with the rifle butt HB, but his head was not made of stone,hence the stock/butt was not damaged until Nevill was on the floor and the rifle struck the Aga.
Appart from a piece splintering off,the stock was split and cracked around the trigger area!
The rifle was badly damaged.

No, it wasn't made of stone, hence it cracked open!!

[snow66!]

No, it wasn't made of stone, hence it cracked open!!

Where did it crack open Zoso?
Most of the damage to the head was caused by the bullets!
The final shots to the top of the head scalping him!
My knowledge of the case may be vastly inferior to most posters on here, but I can assure you I have studied the crime scene evidence and the injuries to the victims in great detail.
As you know Zoso, my main interest is crime scene scenarios, the complete opposite of you!

[Rob_]

What you should have said was that there were a few people who spoke well of Jeremy!

In the US children are TAUGHT how to use guns because they are a fact of life. How many of the shootings were carried out with a .22 semi auto rifle that said kids had never used before? Why are you telling how many times the victims were shot? You think after all this time I need to be told? You're the one who said Jeremy would have shot the victims once in the head - and IF (by an unbelievable stretch of the imagination - he was innocent) - what would he have done with Sheila? Or how would he have avoided being made a suspect?

Looking at photographs is nothing like being at the scene!

It would take great force to break the stock but given you've set yourself up and M's Forensic Queen of Blue - why don't you do an experiment and post your findings?

As for the last point - by remark was about the scientists in FFS not the silencer!

It would be quite easy to break a stock, it would not need great force.

[Zoso]

Where did it crack open Zoso?
Most of the damage to the head was caused by the bullets!
The final shots to the top of the head scalping him!
My knowledge of the case may be vastly inferior to most posters on here, but I can assure you I have studied the crime scene evidence and the injuries to the victims in great detail.
As you know Zoso, my main interest is crime scene scenarios, the complete opposite of you!

Nevills's injuries from the gunshots are listed under 'Gunshot Wounds' in Vanezis's report but he also lists 'Other' External Injuries on Nevill's head and neck. 

[Hardy Boy]

Nevill was indeed knocked out with the rifle butt HB, but his head was not made of stone,hence the stock/butt was not damaged until Nevill was on the floor and the rifle struck the Aga.
Appart from a piece splintering off,the stock was split and cracked around the trigger area!
The rifle was badly damaged.

Sorry i thought you was saying the rifle never hit Neville's head, so your saying now the rifle hit Neville's head, not hard enough to inflict the fracture to Neville's head?  But then hit the AGA with such force it then broke the stock?

The Rifle hitting Neville's head caused it to Fracture, and at the same time caused severe Bruising and swelling to both his eyes is how i take it Snow?  Maybe the rifle hit the floor on the follow through, but iv'e not seen evidence it hitting the AGA?  I think without checking, Vanezis could tell the fracture was an external injury, meaning caused from a strike?


https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=988.0;attach=19350;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=19635;image

[Hardy Boy]

The rifle probably hit the top of the Aga and shattered Cutie, not Nevills head!
Rifle stocks dont break easy, soldiers were trained to use them on the enemy!
The butt hit an unmovable object once Nevill was lying on the floor with his back against the Aga!
Hence the rifle wasn't covered in blood from Nevills head!

Wev'e got one poster telling us Rifle stocks don't break easy and another saying rifle stocks do break easy, Do they or Don't they?

[Jane]

Where did it crack open Zoso?
Most of the damage to the head was caused by the bullets!
The final shots to the top of the head scalping him!
My knowledge of the case may be vastly inferior to most posters on here, but I can assure you I have studied the crime scene evidence and the injuries to the victims in great detail.
As you know Zoso, my main interest is crime scene scenarios, the complete opposite of you!

"Most of the damage to the head was caused by bullets"? Really?!!! "The final shots to the top of the head scalping him"? Really?!!! It's been a looonnng time since I read PV's report, so I went back and read it. It appears your opinion is at odds with that of the eminent Pathologist. Crime scene scenarios are all very well as long as they don't change what's already known. Besides which, how ever many scenarios are presented, how does one know which, if any, is correct? Probably none. Maybe an amalgam of them all?

[snow66!]

"Most of the damage to the head was caused by bullets"? Really?!!! "The final shots to the top of the head scalping him"? Really?!!! It's been a looonnng time since I read PV's report, so I went back and read it. It appears your opinion is at odds with that of the eminent Pathologist. Crime scene scenarios are all very well as long as they don't change what's already known. Besides which, how ever many scenarios are presented, how does one know which, if any, is correct? Probably none. Maybe an amalgam of them all?

Only one scenario fits with the phone call to JB and the Aga burns Jane!

[snow66!]

Sorry i thought you was saying the rifle never hit Neville's head, so your saying now the rifle hit Neville's head, not hard enough to inflict the fracture to Neville's head?  But then hit the AGA with such force it then broke the stock?

The Rifle hitting Neville's head caused it to Fracture, and at the same time caused severe Bruising and swelling to both his eyes is how i take it Snow?  Maybe the rifle hit the floor on the follow through, but iv'e not seen evidence it hitting the AGA?  I think without checking, Vanezis could tell the fracture was an external injury, meaning caused from a strike?


https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=988.0;attach=19350;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=19635;image

The cuts and bruises to the face may have been caused later on HB, after Nevill regained conciousness.