Police Fitting Up Suspects

[Adam]

I could not give a flying fig if there are 2,000,000 pieces and who it has gone through.  The flake has never taken centre stage and its this and this alone that needs undermining for a CoA hearing.  An opportunity will then present to have many other aspects undermined. 

I am going to prune my lavender.

The silencer is one of 10 grounds that were submitted to the CCRC in 2021 - two silencers. Whatever that means.

The silencer was also part of the 2002 & 2012 submissions.

If at first you don't succeed.....

[Jane]

* the phone calls are not evidence of anything
* for every witness who came forward and said JB said something negative about his family there were others who said the opposite
* the state of SC was entirely compatible with her carrying out the murders/suicide hence the chief sup, police surgeon and pathologist did not query
*what knowledge do you need to fill a magazine, try it for yourself, point a rifle and pull the trigger?  All victims sustained shots at close range.  How could anyone miss?  JB was a marksman at Greshams.  Had he have wanted to murder his family.  He would have fired one shot to the head.  'Guilters' say it needed to look manic and amateurish. 
*the murderer over-powered NB after he sustained 2 gunshot wounds to the face which the pathologist made clear caused much bleeding, great pain and would have killed him had the other shots not supervened.  He also lost the complete use of his left arm by the time he arrived in the kitchen.  How was he a threat to anyone in that state?

I keep hearing all this crap about guns being so easy to handle that even children could use them. A couple of days ago my partner left his beside my wardrobe. I don't like guns and I wasn't happy about it being there, so I moved it. Or rather, I tried to! Okay, I'm not used to handling guns, but I definitely couldn't have lifted it to fire it. Although I did manage to move it.

I rather imagine that the early conclusion of murder/suicide originated from JB and trickled down. This 'fact' was accepted until the relatives gave 'teeth' to what many on the investigation team already suspected. What they'd felt instinctively, like an itch which couldn't be scratched because there was nothing concrete to work on, suddenly appeared to have life. I imagine, if they were prepared to put the force's reputation on the line and make themselves look like prize idiots by admitting they'd got it wrong, they must have been pretty damned certain that JB was guilty.

[ILB]

There is over 200 pieces of circumstantial & forensic evidence.

But appreciate supporters will focus on one piece because the relatives found it.

No there isn't.

[Zoso]

* the phone calls are not evidence of anything
* for every witness who came forward and said JB said something negative about his family there were others who said the opposite
* the state of SC was entirely compatible with her carrying out the murders/suicide hence the chief sup, police surgeon and pathologist did not query
*what knowledge do you need to fill a magazine, try it for yourself, point a rifle and pull the trigger?  All victims sustained shots at close range.  How could anyone miss?  JB was a marksman at Greshams.  Had he have wanted to murder his family.  He would have fired one shot to the head.  'Guilters' say it needed to look manic and amateurish. 
*the murderer over-powered NB after he sustained 2 gunshot wounds to the face which the pathologist made clear caused much bleeding, great pain and would have killed him had the other shots not supervened.  He also lost the complete use of his left arm by the time he arrived in the kitchen.  How was he a threat to anyone in that state?

Of course the phone calls are evidence - that's how the whole things started.

For every witness? Who?

In order to use that particular rifle, you had to know it had a magazine, how to fill it, attach it to the rifle and. chamber the first shot. It's not a case of just filling the magazine, pointing and shooting! Shooting them all in the head once but herself twice? That wouldn't raise and eyebrow would it?

The pathologist said that if he had seen Sheil in situ, he's had questioned thing.

Whoever weirded that rifle, did so with such force that not only did part of the stock break off, it cracked it. I don't believe for one moment that Sheila wouldn't have had bits of Nevill on her nightdress. Don't tell me Bamber didn't - we don't know, he had time to clean up1

[ILB]

Jeremy said he tried calling Witham before Chelmsford.

[Adam]

No there isn't.

Even KE says are 200 pieces.

And she is CC!

[Cambridgecutie]

The silencer is one of 10 grounds that were submitted to the CCRC in 2021 - two silencers. Whatever that means.

The silencer was also part of the 2002 & 2012 submissions.

If at first you don't succeed.....

But it isn't the silencer that needs undermining.  Its the blood flake.

2002 : Defence still running with the defence strategy at trial ie SC using the rifle with silencer to murder her family before removing it, replacing it in the gun cupboard and going upstairs to shoot herself.  The blood flake representing a mix of NB and June's blood. Roll on 2002 June's DNA was found in the silencer and SC's was unlikely to have been based on tests using LCN.  This reinforced the defence strategy at trial until the scientists became involved and it then became apparent that LCN is incapabable of identifying the source of biological material and can work of samples the size of a millionth the size of a grain of salt.  It was then rightly concluded the test results were meaningless. 

2012 : Defence based on the abrasion rings around SC's gunshot wounds.  With the experts for the defence arguing the appearance of the abrasion rings suggest they were inflicted without a silencer.  Gets nowhere close to undermining the blood flake.

2021 :  Defence, if you can call it that, arguing two or more silencers were foresnically examined/in existence.  Again gets nowhere close to undermining the blood flake.  CCRC/CoA will want to see the exhibit at trial SBJ/1 is undermined, particularly the blood flake.  Vague notions of 2 or more silencers will be laughed out the door.

[Cambridgecutie]

Of course the phone calls are evidence - that's how the whole things started.

Evidence of what?  That a phone call was made or wasn't made?

For every witness? Who?

CC (that's Colin Caffell) until JM paid him a visit a month later.  JB's former girlfriend and her children.  The manager of Caribbean Cottage,  manager of snooker hall, business people who visited the farm. 

In order to use that particular rifle, you had to know it had a magazine, how to fill it, attach it to the rifle and. chamber the first shot. It's not a case of just filling the magazine, pointing and shooting! Shooting them all in the head once but herself twice? That wouldn't raise and eyebrow would it?

In the US where gun crime is rife.  Pre school children shoot their parents.  The victims were not shot once in the head.  NB sustained 6 gunshot wounds to the head, June 2, DC 5 and NC 3.

The pathologist said that if he had seen Sheil in situ, he's had questioned thing.

He had access to soc images before finalising his pm reports and pre trial.

Whoever weirded that rifle, did so with such force that not only did part of the stock break off, it cracked it. I don't believe for one moment that Sheila wouldn't have had bits of Nevill on her nightdress. Don't tell me Bamber didn't - we don't know, he had time to clean up1

What force is required to break the a part of the stock? 

NB and perp were seperated by a LR, that's a long rifle, and the rifle only contained blood stains that were insufficient in quantity for grouping so that should tell you all you need to know in this regard.  It should also tell you the 1/4" flake is bogus when you consider the stains on the rifle were far greater than the 1/4" flake which was able to produce groupings for AK, EAP and HP.

[Adam]

But it isn't the silencer that needs undermining.  Its the blood flake.

2002 : Defence still running with the defence strategy at trial ie SC using the rifle with silencer to murder her family before removing it, replacing it in the gun cupboard and going upstairs to shoot herself.  The blood flake representing a mix of NB and June's blood. Roll on 2002 June's DNA was found in the silencer and SC's was unlikely to have been based on tests using LCN.  This reinforced the defence strategy at trial until the scientists became involved and it then became apparent that LCN is incapabable of identifying the source of biological material and can work of samples the size of a millionth the size of a grain of salt.  It was then rightly concluded the test results were meaningless. 

2012 : Defence based on the abrasion rings around SC's gunshot wounds.  With the experts for the defence arguing the appearance of the abrasion rings suggest they were inflicted without a silencer.  Gets nowhere close to undermining the blood flake.

2021 :  Defence, if you can call it that, arguing two or more silencers were foresnically examined/in existence.  Again gets nowhere close to undermining the blood flake.  CCRC/CoA will want to see the exhibit at trial SBJ/1 is undermined, particularly the blood flake.  Vague notions of 2 or more silencers will be laughed out the door.

Good luck with that. Believe there is nothing left to test.

Just have to go by the 17 out of 21 markers evidence.

[Cambridgecutie]

I keep hearing all this crap about guns being so easy to handle that even children could use them. A couple of days ago my partner left his beside my wardrobe. I don't like guns and I wasn't happy about it being there, so I moved it. Or rather, I tried to! Okay, I'm not used to handling guns, but I definitely couldn't have lifted it to fire it. Although I did manage to move it.

I rather imagine that the early conclusion of murder/suicide originated from JB and trickled down. This 'fact' was accepted until the relatives gave 'teeth' to what many on the investigation team already suspected. What they'd felt instinctively, like an itch which couldn't be scratched because there was nothing concrete to work on, suddenly appeared to have life. I imagine, if they were prepared to put the force's reputation on the line and make themselves look like prize idiots by admitting they'd got it wrong, they must have been pretty damned certain that JB was guilty.

The rifle weighs 6.6 pounds.  A twin buggy weighs 11.8kg/26.01 pounds. 

https://greatnorthgunco.ca/product/anschutz-model-525-in-22lr/

https://www.johnlewis.com/joie-baby-aire-twin-stroller-rosy-and-sea/p5061102?s_ppc=2dx_mixed_fashion_SF&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwx4O4BhAnEiwA42SbVK8tIr-liCj-R9QEKTNkXBp9Es4B5GwzkxJBelvfVjcAk0q_JYFMkhoCcN8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

There are far more moving parts to erect and collapse a twin buggy than filling a mag, attaching it to the rifle, chambering a round and pulling the trigger.  I bet even you could do it Jane!

[Cambridgecutie]

Good luck with that. Believe there is nothing left to test.

Just have to go by the 17 out of 21 markers evidence.

Doesn't need to be anything left to undermine the flake. 

17/20:

497. We, therefore, consider the matter on the basis that the conclusions to be drawn from the DNA evidence are:

i) June Bamber's DNA was in the sound moderator at the time of the DNA examination;

ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was; and

iii) there was evidence of DNA from at least one male.

[Adam]

Doesn't need to be anything left to undermine the flake. 

17/20:

497. We, therefore, consider the matter on the basis that the conclusions to be drawn from the DNA evidence are:

i) June Bamber's DNA was in the sound moderator at the time of the DNA examination;

ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was; and

iii) there was evidence of DNA from at least one male.

Well the CCRC submission is regarding 2 silencers. 

The DNA route was dismissed in 2002.

[Jane]

The rifle weighs 6.6 pounds.  A twin buggy weighs 11.8kg/26.01 pounds. 

https://greatnorthgunco.ca/product/anschutz-model-525-in-22lr/

https://www.johnlewis.com/joie-baby-aire-twin-stroller-rosy-and-sea/p5061102?s_ppc=2dx_mixed_fashion_SF&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwx4O4BhAnEiwA42SbVK8tIr-liCj-R9QEKTNkXBp9Es4B5GwzkxJBelvfVjcAk0q_JYFMkhoCcN8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

There are far more moving parts to erect and collapse a twin buggy than filling a mag, attaching it to the rifle, chambering a round and pulling the trigger.  I bet even you could do it Jane!

I've never lifted a buggy, CC. Twin or otherwise. But I did incur problems through lifting a wheelchair.

[Cambridgecutie]

Well the CCRC submission is regarding 2 silencers. 

The DNA route was dismissed in 2002.

And your point is?

[Adam]

And your point is?

If you want to post about something dismissed by the COA over 20 years ago & not in the current CCRC submission, feel free.