Police Fitting Up Suspects

[Cambridgecutie]

I'm not stirring the Pot, it's something that has been openly discussed on here, it would be interesting to know why you have changed back to your always and original thoughts that's all.  NGB and Roch and David have probably come under some unfailr criticism on here,  others have defended you, now youv'e done a complete 360, i would want to know why, that's all and was it a game you have been playing? 

 It doesn't bother me your thoughts about the case one bit, in fact youv'e added interest again as far as i'm concerened, and you are a good poster, i'm not here to prove Jeremy's guilt or innocence, what i will debate is when accusations are made against someone that are totally unfounded.


It's in Woodcocks written statements, and i'm not going to find anything for you, when i do you either dismiss it or put time frames on it.

Woodcock commented about SC's clean feet and overall state of cleanliness.  He was a firearms officer.  Not ballistics, biologist or pathologist.  There was no reason SC would not appear as she did having carried out the murders and shot herself with the firearm found across her body which was small calibre and fired low velocity ammunition (sub-sonic). 

The pathologist found nothing to contradict the murder/suicide theory and he was the person trained to spot such inconsistencies eg SC's clean feet and overall state of cleanliness.

[Cambridgecutie]

However there seem to have been some junior officers, who from an early stage believed that everything did not add up.

I do not know which junior officers you are referring to but by definition junior equates to lack of experience.

Chief Sup Harris was the most experienced officer to attend soc with some 30 years experience of which 23 years were spent in CID.  He wrote the soc off as murder/suicide.  The police surgeon, Dr Craig, also with decades of experience, thought the scene was one of murder/suicide.  The pathologist, having carried out all pm's, found nothing to contradict the murder/suicide theory. 

[Hardy Boy]

Woodcock commented about SC's clean feet and overall state of cleanliness.  He was a firearms officer.  Not ballistics, biologist or pathologist.  There was no reason SC would not appear as she did having carried out the murders and shot herself with the firearm found across her body which was small calibre and fired low velocity ammunition (sub-sonic). 

The pathologist found nothing to contradict the murder/suicide theory and he was the person trained to spot such inconsistencies eg SC's clean feet and overall state of cleanliness.

As you well know, had the Patholigist been called to the murder scene this may well have been different,  all he had at this time was the Body. 

Doesn't matter what you say about Woodcock, you said none of the raid team though it was nothing but Murder suicide, Woodcock didn't think it was.  He discussed several things he wasn't happy with, the two shots under the chin, the bullet cases and the ejection from the rifle, and other things.

[Hardy Boy]

I do not know which junior officers you are referring to but by definition junior equates to lack of experience.

Chief Sup Harris was the most experienced officer to attend soc with some 30 years experience of which 23 years were spent in CID.  He wrote the soc off as murder/suicide.  The police surgeon, Dr Craig, also with decades of experience, thought the scene was one of murder/suicide.  The pathologist, having carried out all pm's, found nothing to contradict the murder/suicide theory.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7638.0;attach=44959;image

[Hardy Boy]

I do not know which junior officers you are referring to but by definition junior equates to lack of experience.

Chief Sup Harris was the most experienced officer to attend soc with some 30 years experience of which 23 years were spent in CID.  He wrote the soc off as murder/suicide.  The police surgeon, Dr Craig, also with decades of experience, thought the scene was one of murder/suicide.  The pathologist, having carried out all pm's, found nothing to contradict the murder/suicide theory.

I thought Dr Craig just certified Death, where does he state it was murder suicide?

[Jane]

As you well know, had the Patholigist been called to the murder scene this may well have been different,  all he had at this time was the Body. 

Doesn't matter what you say about Woodcock, you said none of the raid team though it was nothing but Murder suicide, Woodcock didn't think it was.  He discussed several things he wasn't happy with, the two shots under the chin, the bullet cases and the ejection from the rifle, and other things.

There seems to be the belief, amongst supporters, that all police had gone in 'cold', uninformed, and ignorant of information! Of which there was only one source. That source being jB. Do they not realise it would have gone round like wildfire? By the time the last person, be it police or civilian, entered that house,  they were likely to have heard something of what JB had said.

[Hardy Boy]

There seems to be the belief, amongst supporters, that all police had gone in 'cold', uninformed, and ignorant of information! Of which there was only one source. That source being jB. Do they not realise it would have gone round like wildfire? By the time the last person, be it police or civilian, entered that house,  they were likely to have heard something of what JB had said.

I agree Jane, unfortunatley TAFF had closed his Ears to any such talk.

[Cambridgecutie]

As you well know, had the Patholigist been called to the murder scene this may well have been different,  all he had at this time was the Body. 

The pathologist had access to all soc photos.  He said 'My examination did not reveal anything to contradict the suicide theory...' And the bodies were bagged in accordance with 'suspicious death'.

Doesn't matter what you say about Woodcock, you said none of the raid team though it was nothing but Murder suicide, Woodcock didn't think it was.  He discussed several things he wasn't happy with, the two shots under the chin, the bullet cases and the ejection from the rifle, and other things.

Nothing A/PS Woodcock said equated to dissenting from the the prevailing murder/suicide theory.  He was a firearms officer.  He was not CID, police surgeon or pathologist.

[Cambridgecutie]

I thought Dr Craig just certified Death, where does he state it was murder suicide?

38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night. The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted.

[Cambridgecutie]

I agree Jane, unfortunatley TAFF had closed his Ears to any such talk.

DCI Jones did not sign the soc as murder/suicide that responsibility fell to Chief Sup Harris. 

Why was DCI Jones going to take on board all the poison the realtives were attempting to drip in his ears?  The relatives provided nothing of evidential value nor did DS Jones until he fabricated the OUTSIDE of the silencer and secured JM's testimony by putting the frighteners on.   

[Hardy Boy]

38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night. The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted.

Dr Craig, was what has been said, a DR, he wasn't there to detemine Murder suicide, all he did was certify Death. 

Vanezis make it absoltly clear, had he attened WHF on the mornings of the Murder, "He would have without doubt have been concerned" .................................

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7638.0;attach=44959;image

[Jane]

DCI Jones did not sign the soc as murder/suicide that responsibility fell to Chief Sup Harris. 

Why was DCI Jones going to take on board all the poison the realtives were attempting to drip in his ears?  The relatives provided nothing of evidential value nor did DS Jones until he fabricated the OUTSIDE of the silencer and secured JM's testimony by putting the frighteners on.

Surely, any 'poison' dripped originated from JB? Relatives weren't there at the time but it's reasonable to think they'd have been advised -to get it corroborated?- Of what their cousin/nephew had said? All they'd have done was refute it and call it as they'd seen/experienced it.

[Cambridgecutie]

Dr Craig, was what has been said, a DR, he wasn't there to detemine Murder suicide, all he did was certify Death. 

I didn't say Dr Craig was there to determine murder or suicide.  But he certainly did not see anything ovious which contradicted the murder/suicide theory otherwise he would have said as much.

Vanezis make it absoltly clear, had he attened WHF on the mornings of the Murder, "He would have without doubt have been concerned" .................................

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7638.0;attach=44959;image

The bottom line is that Dr Vanezis has always maintained:

46. From the pathological evidence alone, the pathologist could not say, one way or the other, whether Mrs Caffell had been murdered or had taken her own life.

If he thought murder was a real possibility there was nothing to prevent his trial testimony going in that direction.  It didn't.  It was neutral. 

When he attended WHF on 8th Aug DS Jones was the only dissenter from the murder/suicide theory:

[Cambridgecutie]

Surely, any 'poison' dripped originated from JB? Relatives weren't there at the time but it's reasonable to think they'd have been advised -to get it corroborated?- Of what their cousin/nephew had said? All they'd have done was refute it and call it as they'd seen/experienced it.

AE was present at Bourtree on 7th Aug when JB was giving his statement.  Whatever he said she did not believe.  AE had her own twist/slant.

[Roch]

AE was present at Bourtree on 7th Aug when JB was giving his statement.  Whatever he said she did not believe.  AE had her own twist/slant.

How would you describe your own slant?  Not twisted I hope.

I'll tell you one thing about AE, certainly sticks by her guns.