Silencer: If Sheila's blood was planted what about David & Pamela's blood group?

[Hardy Boy]

No that is not what I am saying at all.  I am saying the relatives introduced the subject of the rifle, silencer, scope, magazine and ammo on 8th Aug.  The relatives, particularly AP who claims to have seen the rifle during the last weekend of July with the silencer and scope fitted, found the fact the rifle was found on SC without the silencer and scope fitted suspicious.  This fact would not have fallen on deaf ears with DS Jones who soon realised how incriminating it would be for Bamber if he could connect the silencer with the soc. 

DS Jones did not need any of SC's blood.  He would know as an experienced officer that very small blood stains were incapable of being typed.  A small bloodstain would only reveal that it was in fact blood and human in origin.  He may well have pricked his own finger. 

He could have contaminated the silencer on 9th at WHF or on 12th after he collected it from the Eatons.  If the latter it would account for all the contradictory statements supplied by the relatives as to its appearance etc.

Are you serious, he may well have pricked his own finger?  He would be the first detective iv’e ever heard who puts his own blood  at a crime scene?

[Hardy Boy]

Where did he get the blood?

He pricked his own finger and used that 

[Zoso]

There was nothing wrong with the soc at all. 

How would it have been easier for EP to stay with Sheila post relatives, JM's testimony and External and Internal debris on/in silencer?

I wasn’t talking about YOUR theory. There are more posters with ideas than just yourself. There are those that believe the police started framing Bamber from the start - that’s who I’m talking about!

[Cambridgecutie]

He pricked his own finger and used that 

What is remotely amusing about that?  You do not appear to understand the blood evidence and what was available to police investigations in a pre dna era.  The only tests available were based on serology which is incapable of producing anything statistically individualsing.  The nearest being groupings which are shared by 8% of unrelated white British population.  Even then it requires a large sample of the right quality.  Hence when the blood stains were analysed on the rifle they were incapable of being typed:

71. The rifle bore blood smearing on the barrel in the region of the fore-sight and around the mechanism and there were splashes of blood to the left side of the weapon. The appearance of the blood staining was consistent with it having been used to strike somebody who was already bleeding. On analysis the blood was found to be human blood but tests to determine grouping were unsuccessful.

How many times do you think officers needed to send items to the lab only for them to come back with 'tests to determine grouping were unsuccessful' to fully understand what was required to get a result?

DS Jones would have been only to aware that tiny traces of blood would only show up as blood and human in origin.  How would his blood implicate him?

Note the size of the stains on the rifle v the outside of the silencer,

[ILB]

I can't see Jones fitting Bamber without any type of monetary value going his way as I've alluded to earlier.

It would be hard for Jones to keep such money lying about. He would not want to bank it and if he kept it in cash and his wife found out or something questions would be asked.

In my view it would have had to been a substantial amount of money. This isn't fitting up somebody for shoplifting. It would  of murder x5 and the person your fitting up is seen as a bereaved relative at that present point

If it transpired that one of the relatives had paid him to fit Bamber up then they'd be both fucked.

[ILB]

Believe if he had tried to fit him up it always come out of the woodwork eventually. Especially if Jones was a drinker.

[ILB]

Why would a copper cause himself such a potential amount of headache though lying?

[Cambridgecutie]

I can't see Jones fitting Bamber without any type of monetary value going his way as I've alluded to earlier.

It would be hard for Jones to keep such money lying about. He would not want to bank it and if he kept it in cash and his wife found out or something questions would be asked.

In my view it would have had to been a substantial amount of money. This isn't fitting up somebody for shoplifting. It would  of murder x5 and the person your fitting up is seen as a bereaved relative at that present point

If it transpired that one of the relatives had paid him to fit Bamber up then they'd be both fucked.

The incentive of money was just a thought.  The overwhelming motivation for DS Jones was his total belief that Bamber was responsible:

@26.40 -  I voiced my opinions and said I think Bambers involved.  At that stage I was told not unless anything other evidence is forthcoming its still going to be treated as 4 murders and suicide.  And to be quite honest with you for a month I went through hell.  Because I was leading what I would call a double life I suppose knowing that he'd committed all these murders but trying to play ball with me job.  I had to just pray that something else would come up very shortly to prove that I was right.

[Cambridgecutie]

I can't see Jones fitting Bamber without any type of monetary value going his way as I've alluded to earlier.

It would be hard for Jones to keep such money lying about. He would not want to bank it and if he kept it in cash and his wife found out or something questions would be asked.

In my view it would have had to been a substantial amount of money. This isn't fitting up somebody for shoplifting. It would  of murder x5 and the person your fitting up is seen as a bereaved relative at that present point

If it transpired that one of the relatives had paid him to fit Bamber up then they'd be both fucked.

I am not saying he was incentivised.  It was simply a thought. 

BW did report PE to EP, post trial, for selling off a lot of WHF plant machinery and Bamber's car below market value for cash.  Of course this might have been simply convenient for seller and buyer, cash was king in the day, or to avoid paying tax.  Although I can't recall what the tax rules were in the day regarding farm plant/machinery.  Or it may have been he had a debt to settle that need repaying in cash!

[David1819]

He pricked his own finger and used that 

The special brew has kicked in early today it seems. 

[Hardy Boy]

It was the relatives that raised all aspects of the rifle, silencer, scope, magazine and ammo at a very early stage.  Page 108:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.0.html

The keys to WHF were handed over to the Eatons late noon on 9th Aug by DS Jones and DCI Jones.  DS Jones explained the newly fitted alarm system.  It would have been easy for DS Jones to slip in and out alone either before or after handing the keys over.

He was asked on the 7th during his giving statements about the silencer and scope before the relatives had met the police, and it was DCI Jones who brought it up again on the evening of the 9th.  I know it was raised again by the relatives.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4226.0;attach=31214;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4596.0;attach=33758;image

[Hardy Boy]

What is remotely amusing about that?  You do not appear to understand the blood evidence and what was available to police investigations in a pre dna era.  The only tests available were based on serology which is incapable of producing anything statistically individualsing.  The nearest being groupings which are shared by 8% of unrelated white British population.  Even then it requires a large sample of the right quality.  Hence when the blood stains were analysed on the rifle they were incapable of being typed:

71. The rifle bore blood smearing on the barrel in the region of the fore-sight and around the mechanism and there were splashes of blood to the left side of the weapon. The appearance of the blood staining was consistent with it having been used to strike somebody who was already bleeding. On analysis the blood was found to be human blood but tests to determine grouping were unsuccessful.

How many times do you think officers needed to send items to the lab only for them to come back with 'tests to determine grouping were unsuccessful' to fully understand what was required to get a result?

DS Jones would have been only to aware that tiny traces of blood would only show up as blood and human in origin.  How would his blood implicate him?

Note the size of the stains on the rifle v the outside of the silencer,

I'm quite aware of what was possible during blood testing,  and yes i do find it amusing you accusing Stan of pricking his finger to inplant blood into a silencer as evidence.  He was called to collect the silencer from the family, he didn't think it was of any value to the police investigation until he was told that there was blood on it, he also noticed the red paint on it, this was before he took it back to Witham,  so the blood and paint must have been planted before the 10th when the family found the silencer, and your saying the blood inside the silencer and on the outside is Stan Jones?

[Cambridgecutie]

The special brew has kicked in early today it seems. 

You fail to understand the blood evidence.

[Cambridgecutie]

He was asked on the 7th during his giving statements about the silencer and scope before the relatives had met the police, and it was DCI Jones who brought it up again on the evening of the 9th.  I know it was raised again by the relatives.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4226.0;attach=31214;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4596.0;attach=33758;image

Bamber did not mention the silencer and scope in his statement of 7th Aug:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1091.msg33705.html#msg33705

It was first raised by the relatives particularly AP.

[Hardy Boy]

Bamber did not mention the silencer and scope in his statement of 7th Aug:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1091.msg33705.html#msg33705

It was first raised by the relatives particularly AP.

I will rephrase that, he was asked on the 7th about the silencer and Scope,