Silencer: If Sheila's blood was planted what about David & Pamela's blood group?

[Zoso]

Only way I can see DS Jones or any senior officer framing Jeremy is if they were tempted by monetary reward.

There's no incentive or appeal otherwise to do so.  And to do something of thus magnitude it would only be tempted by a large amount.

No copper is going to risk his job, pension, family over a hunch or personal belief. Unless someone put money in his pocket.

I pretty much agree - it would also have to be untraceable - which isn't easy to do, not even back then. Also, anyone offering such an incentive would have to be pretty sure it was likely to be accepted or they would find themselves in deep doodoo!

[Cambridgecutie]

Bamber was 'asked' to make the second statement? That's not what the statement implies, it implies that Bamber initiated the second statement by the term "Further to the statement I made to the police dated 7th August 1985 I would like to clarify my movements and actions I made at my parents farm on the evening of 6th August 1985" - it doesn't state 'he had been asked' which it usually does.

Semantics.  The point being the subject of the silencer was extremely topical at the earliest of stages in the investigation.  According to DS Jones' trial testimony, he and DCI Jones visited Bamber at Bourtree on 9th Aug to question Bamber re the second statement/silencer.  This would not have fallen on deaf ears with DS Jones.  He could see immediately how incriminating the silencer could be for Bamber if he could connect the silencer to the soc.

[Cambridgecutie]

There is no evidence he took it at all and given that Bamber questioned it, he would hardly be likely to keep it. I'm pretty sure that Ann said she gave it to the accountant.

Of course there's no evidence DS Jones removed and retained the contents of NB's wallet but it appears someone did.  The counter argument is that Bamber did and made the phone call to cover his arse. 

[Hardy Boy]

Bamber was 'asked' to make the second statement? That's not what the statement implies, it implies that Bamber initiated the second statement by the term "Further to the statement I made to the police dated 7th August 1985 I would like to clarify my movements and actions I made at my parents farm on the evening of 6th August 1985" - it doesn't state 'he had been asked' which it usually does.

Correct Zoso. Bamber went back to Bolster his story, he was asked certain questions on the 7th and he wanted to put this in to his story,  one was he was asked if Sheila could see him loading the rifle, in his second statement he adds, "as i was loading i would have been a side view to where Sheila was sitting, she would have had a good view of what i was doing"

I don't think DS Jones would just simply rely on the silencer to frame Bamber if he had access to WHF, it was always with other People when he was in there, and someone else would have to be in with it with him,  [very risky] not only that, he got authorisation to hand WHF over to Mrs Eaton on the 12th of August i think?  he had Access to get to Jeremy through his House phone [contamination of blood], Car, bike and clothing. Stan went away around the 15 th of August on Annual leave i believe and left Barlow with it.

[Hardy Boy]

Semantics.  The point being the subject of the silencer was extremely topical at the earliest of stages in the investigation.  According to DS Jones' trial testimony, he and DCI Jones visited Bamber at Bourtree on 9th Aug to question Bamber re the second statement/silencer.  This would not have fallen on deaf ears with DS Jones.  He could see immediately how incriminating the silencer could be for Bamber if he could connect the silencer to the soc.

Others were asking questions, they are trained Police to spot the unusual, wouldn't you question the fact Bamber had gone to shoot Bunnies and the rifle is then found without silencer and sights?

[Hardy Boy]

Semantics.  The point being the subject of the silencer was extremely topical at the earliest of stages in the investigation.  According to DS Jones' trial testimony, he and DCI Jones visited Bamber at Bourtree on 9th Aug to question Bamber re the second statement/silencer.  This would not have fallen on deaf ears with DS Jones.  He could see immediately how incriminating the silencer could be for Bamber if he could connect the silencer to the soc.

So what your saying then Cutie, Stan realises the silencer wasn't on the rifle and straight after the interview he goes over to WHF and contaminates the silencer on the 9th, he gained access to Sheila's blood first, contaminated the silencer with the hair blood and paint just before the relatives find it on the 10th?  Or was they all in with it together?

[Cambridgecutie]

I'm more interested as to why you believe a police officer would put an innocent man in life when he was just a DS and had no particular motivation to see Jeremy Bamber jailed?

I have referenced police corruption myself in the 70s and 80s do you believe DS Jones was offered money?

But that's just it, in the mind of DS Jones Bamber was not an innocent man.  He was utterly convinced he was guilty based on non-scientific matters such as SC's nails and looking like an angel.  Surely this is self-evident from his contribution to 'Killing Mum and Dad'?  He talks about going through hell knowing he had committed all these murders and praying something would turn up! 

I have no idea whether he was financially incentivised or not.  It was just a thought. 

[Cambridgecutie]

Or why any of them would? I have asked this question time and again - there is no answer other than ....... 'something' might have happened at the cs that the police didn't want to get out'. No one knows what that 'something' was. Truth is, there is no reason. Yes, Stefan Kiszko was framed but in that case, they didn't have anyone else in the frame, whereas, you can't say that about the Bamber case. Also, to change from Sheila to Jeremy, EP came under a LOT of criticism and ridicule. It would have been easier for them to stay with Sheila.

There was nothing wrong with the soc at all. 

How would it have been easier for EP to stay with Sheila post relatives, JM's testimony and External and Internal debris on/in silencer?

[Cambridgecutie]

Correct Zoso. Bamber went back to Bolster his story, he was asked certain questions on the 7th and he wanted to put this in to his story,  one was he was asked if Sheila could see him loading the rifle, in his second statement he adds, "as i was loading i would have been a side view to where Sheila was sitting, she would have had a good view of what i was doing"

I don't think DS Jones would just simply rely on the silencer to frame Bamber if he had access to WHF, it was always with other People when he was in there, and someone else would have to be in with it with him,  [very risky] not only that, he got authorisation to hand WHF over to Mrs Eaton on the 12th of August i think?  he had Access to get to Jeremy through his House phone [contamination of blood], Car, bike and clothing. Stan went away around the 15 th of August on Annual leave i believe and left Barlow with it.

It was the relatives that raised all aspects of the rifle, silencer, scope, magazine and ammo at a very early stage.  Page 108:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.0.html

The keys to WHF were handed over to the Eatons late noon on 9th Aug by DS Jones and DCI Jones.  DS Jones explained the newly fitted alarm system.  It would have been easy for DS Jones to slip in and out alone either before or after handing the keys over.

[Cambridgecutie]

So what your saying then Cutie, Stan realises the silencer wasn't on the rifle and straight after the interview he goes over to WHF and contaminates the silencer on the 9th, he gained access to Sheila's blood first, contaminated the silencer with the hair blood and paint just before the relatives find it on the 10th?  Or was they all in with it together?

No that is not what I am saying at all.  I am saying the relatives introduced the subject of the rifle, silencer, scope, magazine and ammo on 8th Aug.  The relatives, particularly AP who claims to have seen the rifle during the last weekend of July with the silencer and scope fitted, found the fact the rifle was found on SC without the silencer and scope fitted suspicious.  This fact would not have fallen on deaf ears with DS Jones who soon realised how incriminating it would be for Bamber if he could connect the silencer with the soc. 

DS Jones did not need any of SC's blood.  He would know as an experienced officer that very small blood stains were incapable of being typed.  A small bloodstain would only reveal that it was in fact blood and human in origin.  He may well have pricked his own finger. 

He could have contaminated the silencer on 9th at WHF or on 12th after he collected it from the Eatons.  If the latter it would account for all the contradictory statements supplied by the relatives as to its appearance etc. 

[Hardy Boy]

It was the relatives that raised all aspects of the rifle, silencer, scope, magazine and ammo at a very early stage.  Page 108:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.0.html

The keys to WHF were handed over to the Eatons late noon on 9th Aug by DS Jones and DCI Jones.  DS Jones explained the newly fitted alarm system.  It would have been easy for DS Jones to slip in and out alone either before or after handing the keys over.

He was with DCI Jones on the evening of the 9th interviewing Bamber, if he had handed the keys over to the relatives at noon, when did he slip in and out to do the deed?  I will post the links later.

[Cambridgecutie]

He was with DCI Jones on the evening of the 9th interviewing Bamber, if he had handed the keys over to the relatives at noon, when did he slip in and out to do the deed?  I will post the links later.

He had many opportunities to fabricate the outside of the silencer whilst he was alone.  Either on 9th or after he collected it from the relatives.  The latter perhaps accounting for the various contradictory statements from the relatives about the finding of the silencer and its appearance. 

I have always wondered what exactly he spent discussing with PE into the small hours drinking whisky.  Surely anyone can see this is not how above board police investigations should be run? 

[David1819]

So what your saying then Cutie, Stan realises the silencer wasn't on the rifle and straight after the interview he goes over to WHF and contaminates the silencer on the 9th, he gained access to Sheila's blood first, contaminated the silencer with the hair blood and paint just before the relatives find it on the 10th?  Or was they all in with it together?

lol

[Cambridgecutie]

lol

Lol that's Hardy Boy's interpretion.

There will never be a bigger lol than your theory that AE wrung out SC's menstrual stained knickers into the silencer. LOL

[Zoso]

Semantics.  The point being the subject of the silencer was extremely topical at the earliest of stages in the investigation.  According to DS Jones' trial testimony, he and DCI Jones visited Bamber at Bourtree on 9th Aug to question Bamber re the second statement/silencer.  This would not have fallen on deaf ears with DS Jones.  He could see immediately how incriminating the silencer could be for Bamber if he could connect the silencer to the soc.

Where did he get the blood?