Jeremy had a furious row with Nevill on the evening prior to the murders....

[Roch]

Who said anything about Jeremy taking over Sheila's flat? It may well be the case that the flat be sold to pay Sheila's debts (Which by this time were considerable)
You need proof of this scenario. It comes from Bamber's own lips!!!
I believe that Bamber would be furious that his cottage would be given to Sheila. In his original police statement Bamber says "Family discussions had taken place regarding what could be done to help Sheila. We spoke about her taking over my house, thus getting her into Essex"
This seemed fresh in his mind, so fresh that he waxed eloquently about it, but could not remember what he said in a telephone conversation to Julie Mugford only hours later.
I believe strongly that this may have been the final straw for Bamber. He knew that if his crime were to be successful, it had to be while all the family were gathered together in one place......'tonight or never'
He knew and felt the time was right to carry out his despicable plan. He was also a lazy 'ne'er do well' and he knew harvest was right around the corner. Harvest = hard work, sweat, long hours and having to endure being with his hated family. This together with the argument he had with Ralph over the cottage that night ultimately and tragically sealed their fate.

What, so he topped three adults and two children (the only family he had) to get out of gathering in the harvest?

[grahameb]

Who said anything about Jeremy taking over Sheila's flat? It may well be the case that the flat be sold to pay Sheila's debts (Which by this time were considerable)
You need proof of this scenario. It comes from Bamber's own lips!!!
I believe that Bamber would be furious that his cottage would be given to Sheila. In his original police statement Bamber says "Family discussions had taken place regarding what could be done to help Sheila. We spoke about her taking over my house, thus getting her into Essex"
This seemed fresh in his mind, so fresh that he waxed eloquently about it, but could not remember what he said in a telephone conversation to Julie Mugford only hours later.
I believe strongly that this may have been the final straw for Bamber. He knew that if his crime were to be successful, it had to be while all the family were gathered together in one place......'tonight or never'
He knew and felt the time was right to carry out his despicable plan. He was also a lazy 'ne'er do well' and he knew harvest was right around the corner. Harvest = hard work, sweat, long hours and having to endure being with his hated family. This together with the argument he had with Ralph over the cottage that night ultimately and tragically sealed their fate.

What, so he topped three adults and two children (the only family he had) to get out of gathering in the harvest?

Well one thing I'll credit these newbie anti bambers. They sure can write a good fairy tale.

[VORTEX]

Starryian007 and Dave - we are going to have to some facts / proof about this because at the moment it's just words. You are both an unknown sources so you will need something to back it all up.

Can you tell me detailed information why June did not attend her bible class on The evening of June 6th?

Why ....when Jeremy was asked what Sheila's reaction was to this discussion about local help / fostering with the twins did Jeremy the "calculated clever murderer" say something along the lines of "little or no reaction she seemed to take it very well". IF he was guilty he would have taken perfect opportunity to say "she went absolutely ballistic and it took a good while to calm her down to any degree". The fact that he overlooked lots of opportunities like this tells you he may just be telling the truth. A clever calculated murderer would not miss this opportunity I can assure you. There are lots of other examples where Jeremy was given the chance to guide things in a certain direction and he didn't - reason why? Because he was neither clever or calculating but was just someone in shock telling the truth. There are a number of examples of the "clever and calculating" Jeremy being neither clever or calculating in any way shape or form.......agreeing to let Ann Eaton have the keys to WHF - a guilty person would not have let her near the place!

[Alias]

Such good ponts, VORTEX!

[starryian007]

Who said anything about Jeremy taking over Sheila's flat? It may well be the case that the flat be sold to pay Sheila's debts (Which by this time were considerable)
You need proof of this scenario. It comes from Bamber's own lips!!!
I believe that Bamber would be furious that his cottage would be given to Sheila. In his original police statement Bamber says "Family discussions had taken place regarding what could be done to help Sheila. We spoke about her taking over my house, thus getting her into Essex"
This seemed fresh in his mind, so fresh that he waxed eloquently about it, but could not remember what he said in a telephone conversation to Julie Mugford only hours later.
I believe strongly that this may have been the final straw for Bamber. He knew that if his crime were to be successful, it had to be while all the family were gathered together in one place......'tonight or never'
He knew and felt the time was right to carry out his despicable plan. He was also a lazy 'ne'er do well' and he knew harvest was right around the corner. Harvest = hard work, sweat, long hours and having to endure being with his hated family. This together with the argument he had with Ralph over the cottage that night ultimately and tragically sealed their fate.

Well as they say on the facebook page, "You couldn't make it up".

Too right. As they say on the innocent page 'Jeremy's such a bear" :-)

[starryian007]

Dave,
Where did the information come from that Ralph and June wanted Sheila in the cottage?
It sounds much more plausible than they wanted Sheila to farm out the twins when they lived with Colin anyway!
But I would like to know where that came from?
Ta

The information is in Jeremy's original statement in August 1985. Please see my post below.

[grahameb]

Who said anything about Jeremy taking over Sheila's flat? It may well be the case that the flat be sold to pay Sheila's debts (Which by this time were considerable)
You need proof of this scenario. It comes from Bamber's own lips!!!
I believe that Bamber would be furious that his cottage would be given to Sheila. In his original police statement Bamber says "Family discussions had taken place regarding what could be done to help Sheila. We spoke about her taking over my house, thus getting her into Essex"
This seemed fresh in his mind, so fresh that he waxed eloquently about it, but could not remember what he said in a telephone conversation to Julie Mugford only hours later.
I believe strongly that this may have been the final straw for Bamber. He knew that if his crime were to be successful, it had to be while all the family were gathered together in one place......'tonight or never'
He knew and felt the time was right to carry out his despicable plan. He was also a lazy 'ne'er do well' and he knew harvest was right around the corner. Harvest = hard work, sweat, long hours and having to endure being with his hated family. This together with the argument he had with Ralph over the cottage that night ultimately and tragically sealed their fate.

Well as they say on the facebook page, "You couldn't make it up".

Too right. As they say on the innocent page 'Jeremy's such a bear" :-)

I wouldn't know mate I never go on that page. But now I know where you're from.

[starryian007]

Dave,
Where did the information come from that Ralph and June wanted Sheila in the cottage?
It sounds much more plausible than they wanted Sheila to farm out the twins when they lived with Colin anyway!
But I would like to know where that came from?
Ta

Dave's imagination, that's the only place this came from.

I would engage your brain before writing this kind of flippant reply. It actually came from Jeremy Bamber's statement on 7th August 1985. Look for yourself.

[starryian007]

Who said anything about Jeremy taking over Sheila's flat? It may well be the case that the flat be sold to pay Sheila's debts (Which by this time were considerable)
You need proof of this scenario. It comes from Bamber's own lips!!!
I believe that Bamber would be furious that his cottage would be given to Sheila. In his original police statement Bamber says "Family discussions had taken place regarding what could be done to help Sheila. We spoke about her taking over my house, thus getting her into Essex"
This seemed fresh in his mind, so fresh that he waxed eloquently about it, but could not remember what he said in a telephone conversation to Julie Mugford only hours later.
I believe strongly that this may have been the final straw for Bamber. He knew that if his crime were to be successful, it had to be while all the family were gathered together in one place......'tonight or never'
He knew and felt the time was right to carry out his despicable plan. He was also a lazy 'ne'er do well' and he knew harvest was right around the corner. Harvest = hard work, sweat, long hours and having to endure being with his hated family. This together with the argument he had with Ralph over the cottage that night ultimately and tragically sealed their fate.

What, so he topped three adults and two children (the only family he had) to get out of gathering in the harvest?

Please don't try to trivialise important points. You know as well as I do that is only a small part of what I said. To do so shows a gross lack of argumentative ability. Now, I am sure you are intelligent enough to respond to the remaining 98% of the other points I made.

[starryian007]

Such good ponts, VORTEX!

Yes very 'cut and thrust'

[grahameb]

Colin's mum does talk about the issue of the twins being fostered in her statement.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,970.msg29582.html#msg29582

and Pamela said June was concerned about Sheila, when they spoke on the phone 6 Aug. Pamela didn't speak to Nevill during that call.

Yes I was looking fior that one. I couldn't remember if it was Colin Caffell who mentioned it or his mum. But that saves me from having to find it. Thanks saraan. This proves that Jeremy didn't make the story up.

[starryian007]

Colin's mum does talk about the issue of the twins being fostered in her statement.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,970.msg29582.html#msg29582

and Pamela said June was concerned about Sheila, when they spoke on the phone 6 Aug. Pamela didn't speak to Nevill during that call.

Yes I was looking fior that one. I couldn't remember if it was Colin Caffell who mentioned it or his mum. But that saves me from having to find it. Thanks saraan. This proves that Jeremy didn't make the story up.

Are you reading the same statement I have just read??? What it actually refers to is the fact that June was fearful that the twins would be taken away by social services because of Sheila's illness. There is absolutely NO reference to June agreeing - in fact quite the opposite. There is NO way June would entertain the idea of fostering the children. This being the case, I very much doubt she would have proposed it to Sheila. Bamber is a shamefaced liar!!

[Alias]

Colin's mum does talk about the issue of the twins being fostered in her statement.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,970.msg29582.html#msg29582

and Pamela said June was concerned about Sheila, when they spoke on the phone 6 Aug. Pamela didn't speak to Nevill during that call.

The twins had been fostered by a family earlier. Part time. It worked well. It is not at all unlikely that the Bambers were contemplating that possibility and discussing it with Sheila that evening.
However, it might have gotten too much for Sheila, who had lost her husband, her career, her mind - and now perhaps her children. She could have "lost it" that night because it was all getting too overwhelming for her.

[Alias]

Colin's mum does talk about the issue of the twins being fostered in her statement.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,970.msg29582.html#msg29582

and Pamela said June was concerned about Sheila, when they spoke on the phone 6 Aug. Pamela didn't speak to Nevill during that call.

Yes I was looking fior that one. I couldn't remember if it was Colin Caffell who mentioned it or his mum. But that saves me from having to find it. Thanks saraan. This proves that Jeremy didn't make the story up.

Are you reading the same statement I have just read??? What it actually refers to is the fact that June was fearful that the twins would be taken away by social services because of Sheila's illness. There is absolutely NO reference to June agreeing - in fact quite the opposite. There is NO way June would entertain the idea of fostering the children. This being the case, I very much doubt she would have proposed it to Sheila. Bamber is a shamefaced liar!!

The twins HAD been fostered earlier, as I said above. So your assumption about the Bambers not contemplating that option at all is not correct.

[starryian007]

Colin's mum does talk about the issue of the twins being fostered in her statement.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,970.msg29582.html#msg29582

and Pamela said June was concerned about Sheila, when they spoke on the phone 6 Aug. Pamela didn't speak to Nevill during that call.

Yes I was looking fior that one. I couldn't remember if it was Colin Caffell who mentioned it or his mum. But that saves me from having to find it. Thanks saraan. This proves that Jeremy didn't make the story up.

Are you reading the same statement I have just read??? What it actually refers to is the fact that June was fearful that the twins would be taken away by social services because of Sheila's illness. There is absolutely NO reference to June agreeing - in fact quite the opposite. There is NO way June would entertain the idea of fostering the children. This being the case, I very much doubt she would have proposed it to Sheila. Bamber is a shamefaced liar!!

The twins HAD been fostered earlier, as I said above. So your assumption about the Bambers not contemplating that option at all is not correct.

That is simply not true Abs. I do not know where you are getting your information. This 'fostering' that you are alluding to is simply babysitting or lengthened stays with trusted people while June was busy. This is a far cry from the word 'adoption' please do not confuse the two.