Luke's Address

[snow66!]

I think he is leading you up the Garden (Roans Dyke) path.

Maybe Bubo,maybe.
Parky is obviously someone who knows every detail of the case by heart.

[snow66!]

Oh well,I have been watching some LM videos and TV shows for a change. I watched one where Scott Forbes walked through the crime scene with someone calling themself Hawaii Five o. It was quite imformative and spoke of the limited time LM had to carry out the crime,although they didn't go into much fine detail,the like of which we are trying to determine here.

Dr Lean did a podcast called 'keeping the record straight',it may be posted here on the forum.It gives details of all the witness timings and statements,but again doesn't really give any actual scenarios as it were.Of course the defence scenario is simple,Luke was at home between 4.45 and 5.30 and then walked to the end of the street to see if Jodi was coming.so I dont suppose Dr Lean or Scott Forbes sees a need to explain any further.

But,personally,I would like them to write something or do a podcast explaining the possible scenarios,linking together all the witness statements and what they said Luke was wearing at the time.
This would give all those with an interest in the case a better understanding of what allegedly took place between 4.55 and 5.55 and help them decide if Mitchell is guilty or not.

Or of course,any other member of the public could do a podcast of their own explaining the possible scenarios, instead of repeating the usual stuff.Does that sound like something you could do? Yes you! You who have been looking into the case for a while and find things dont add up very well regarding the prosecution case. Or do you think it does add up? Well please enlighten me,enlighten everyone why LM is obviously guilty.Will you give it a go??

So,there you are,this has been an appeal for detailed scenarios from Dr Sandra Lean,Scott Forbes B.A.[Hons]LL.B,LP  or you sitting at home reading this,eager to get involved in the case.
Thankyou and bye!

[snow66!]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8775001,-3.068906,3a,90y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swuPspnWU3xkGdzaWjY_erg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

This is the gate of the sighting, used to be wooden.

OK,thanks Parky.So lets just clarify for all the viewers the significance of this gate for starters.
This is the gate where Luke Mitchell was allegedly seen by F/Walsh around 5.45.
Now the position of the gate seems to be about 40 meters further up from the entrance to Roans Dyke path, on the opposite side of the road and heading in the direction of Newbattle Abbey crescent.
Now,first question.How did LM end up in this location,that is, where had he just came from?Second question,where did he go next?
Now Parky,and Dave I believe,think LM was on his way home from killing Jodi when he was seen standing by the gate,so had he just crossed the road and walked up from the entrance to RDP? Is that what your saying boys? If not,please explain where he came from.
So,next,how did he travel home to his mothers house from here? Could you just clarify this Parky? I haven't quite grasped which route you mean he took from this point.Its probably just me being thick,but I just haven't grasped what route through the woods you mean yet,sorry.

Anyway,far more importantly.If Luke Mitchell was trying to sneak home unseen after the murder in order to make it appear that he had just emerged from his mothers house around 5.50-55 to look for Jodie,why did he stop and loiter in full view on a busy road when everyone was driving home from work?

This is a very important question for me,and should be for everyone else too in my opinion.Why did LM decide to stand up and look 'suspicious' by a gate on the main road if he was in the process of sneaking home unseen? How long was he standing there? How many people saw him? Wasn't that plan over?
Why didn't Luke jump the gate and hide if he heard a car coming? Why didn't he get off the main road and out of view ASAP? Apparently he was just standing there in no rush.
If LM wanted to get home unseen,and obviously this would have been imperative to his plan surely,why didn't he bolt across the road and into the woods straight across from the entrance to RDP? What the hell was he doing 40 meters further up the road standing by a gate for the world to witness??? Why was he standing there? Why? Can you give me a rational explanation for this Parky? Dave? Anyone?

[Steve_uk]

OK,thanks Parky.So lets just clarify for all the viewers the significance of this gate for starters.
This is the gate where Luke Mitchell was allegedly seen by F/Walsh around 5.45.
Now the position of the gate seems to be about 40 meters further up from the entrance to Roans Dyke path, on the opposite side of the road and heading in the direction of Newbattle Abbey crescent.
Now,first question.How did LM end up in this location,that is, where had he just came from?Second question,where did he go next?
Now Parky,and Dave I believe,think LM was on his way home from killing Jodi when he was seen standing by the gate,so had he just crossed the road and walked up from the entrance to RDP? Is that what your saying boys? If not,please explain where he came from.
So,next,how did he travel home to his mothers house from here? Could you just clarify this Parky? I haven't quite grasped which route you mean he took from this point.Its probably just me being thick,but I just haven't grasped what route through the woods you mean yet,sorry.

Anyway,far more importantly.If Luke Mitchell was trying to sneak home unseen after the murder in order to make it appear that he had just emerged from his mothers house around 5.50-55 to look for Jodie,why did he stop and loiter in full view on a busy road when everyone was driving home from work?

This is a very important question for me,and should be for everyone else too in my opinion.Why did LM decide to stand up and look 'suspicious' by a gate on the main road if he was in the process of sneaking home unseen? How long was he standing there? How many people saw him? Wasn't that plan over?
Why didn't Luke jump the gate and hide if he heard a car coming? Why didn't he get off the main road and out of view ASAP? Apparently he was just standing there in no rush.
If LM wanted to get home unseen,and obviously this would have been imperative to his plan surely,why didn't he bolt across the road and into the woods straight across from the entrance to RDP? What the hell was he doing 40 meters further up the road standing by a gate for the world to witness??? Why was he standing there? Why? Can you give me a rational explanation for this Parky? Dave? Anyone?

He was reported by Lorraine Fleming as keeping his head down. Maybe he was waiting for someone to pass on foot to give him an alibi, one of his clique. I wonder if Sandra Lean could clear this up? She used to frequent this site, but now seems to have deserted us.

[snow66!]

He was reported by Lorraine Fleming as keeping his head down. Maybe he was waiting for someone to pass on foot to give him an alibi, one of his clique. I wonder if Sandra Lean could clear this up? She used to frequent this site, but now seems to have deserted us.

Sorry Steve,but you have missed the point.He didn't want to be seen at this stage.
He had to get home from the crime scene unnoticed by a soul.
The plan was to emerge from his mums house later on as if he had just had his supper and was off out to look for Jodi at the end of his street.This was when he wanted to be seen.
NOT 15 minutes earlier on his way home,that was game over!
I have put in a request as you can see for Dr Lean or anyone else to explain the various scenarios Steve.

[Steve_uk]

Sorry Steve,but you have missed the point.He didn't want to be seen at this stage.
He had to get home from the crime scene unnoticed by a soul.
The plan was to emerge from his mums house later on as if he had just had his supper and was off out to look for Jodi at the end of his street.This was when he wanted to be seen.
NOT 15 minutes earlier on his way home,that was game over!
I have put in a request as you can see for Dr Lean or anyone else to explain the various scenarios Steve.

Well, Andrina Bryson purportedly saw him and Jodi at the Easthouses end of the path at 4:50pm. The second sighting by Lorraine Fleming was 50 minutes later at the Newbattle end. Isn't it possible he had killed Jodi within that time span, hurried home and then loitered by the gate to concoct an alibi?

[snow66!]

Well, Andrina Bryson purportedly saw him and Jodi at the Easthouses end of the path at 4:50pm. The second sighting by Lorraine Fleming was 50 minutes later at the Newbattle end. Isn't it possible he had killed Jodi within that time span, hurried home and then loitered by the gate to concoct an alibi?

Well,we have discussed that possibility already Steve,but Parky and Dave believe LM was on his way home when Fleming and Walsh saw him[if it was LM at all that is,of course]

So,we are discussing that/their scenario at the moment.
If you go through the recent posts you can see the problems with a scenario where LM goes straight home after the murder and then back down to the gate when he was seen by F/W.For one thing,he wouldn't be wearing the parka,and time wise,very tight.And it means the sequence of events would have been odd.It means LM would have left his mums house and went straight down to the gate at 5.45 before turning around soon after and walking back up to the wall at the end of his street to be seen by the bike boys at 5.55,before tuning around AGAIN to walk down to Barondale cottages to be seen by Carol Heatley,then turning around again and walking back up to the wall where the returning bike boy sees him at 6.20-30. Now thats just plain silly Steve!
If you study the various possibilities for LM being the killer,none are very coherent,logical or very likely.
Anyway,as you know Steve,I mostly study the crime scene scenarios and little else.I go over the various possible scenarios in both the Jeremy Bamber case and now the LM case too again and again and again,over and over in my mind,looking for things that simply dont add up.
Did LM have a window of opportunity to carry out the crime Steve?Did he really?

[Parky41]

Did LM have a window of opportunity to carry out the crime Steve?Did he really?

[/quote][/color]

So it is time and scenario only and not any evidence? Opportunity and time to carry out etc?

50mins time scale for the meet, murder and out of there. No one can show that this was never doable, ever.

Newbattle road is just over a mile long, a person can jog a mile easily in 9/10mins. Re look those distances along with the full length of the road itself, which runs from Newtongrange to Eskbank. What is being showing is that it was more than doable, to cover those distances and be out of that coat/footwear, and any most basic clean, which is all that was required at this point in time.

So, what was absolutely doable is covered, he most certainly did have opportunity and means, there is nothing that can show this to have ever been impossible. Then we apply the following which is vital to those timescales, the reason as to why he would need to have done this in the shortest time possible, which is vital to it all.

You know what those factors are?

[Parky41]

So it is time and scenario only and not any evidence? Opportunity and time to carry out etc?

50mins time scale for the meet, murder and out of there. No one can show that this was never doable, ever.

Newbattle road is just over a mile long, a person can jog a mile easily in 9/10mins. Re look those distances along with the full length of the road itself, which runs from Newtongrange to Eskbank. What is being showing is that it was more than doable, to cover those distances and be out of that coat/footwear, and any most basic clean, which is all that was required at this point in time.

So, what was absolutely doable is covered, he most certainly did have opportunity and means, there is nothing that can show this to have ever been impossible. Then we apply the following which is vital to those timescales, the reason as to why he would need to have done this in the shortest time possible, which is vital to it all.

You know what those factors are?

There you have it, that was the scenario, it will always be the scenario. He met the girl and murdered her, he set to putting alibi in place firstly by calling the Jones house. That was his first thought after carrying out the deed, 'I need to have this time frame covered. Make it seem I had not met her therefore not murdered her?'

Absolutely, that he then attempted to cross the road without being seen, make his way to being changed and initially cleaned. A car came and he put his head down. That he got out of that coat, and came back out on to Newbattle road, making his way down to the entrance. Placing himself into further alibi, placing himself in different clothing to that which he had been seen in, and placing  himself away from there to be seen waiting somewhere else.

Once he had been seen, a safety time of alibi, he then took himself away from Newbattle road, for any further clean up, for putting alibi in place and disposal of evidence. That after he left the boys at 9pm he then had further time for putting anything else into motion. That he had communication with his mother, which was not about seeing if the girl had been to the  house, but discussing anything to do with covering up whatever he had told her took place in that first hour?

And then we add in the missing clothing, the knife, his drug habit, the extraordinary stories of being idling about for the best part of 80mins. The absolute fact the girl had never walked the path to his alone before, that she had never failed to not turn up to meet with him. That he had been the only one contacted to know of any change in her punishment, she had no means to contact anyone else. Then we move on to that search and the absolute fact he lied, his dog had not alerted to any body, he had not been where he claimed on that path, he had no reason for knowing where to go when entering that woodland. The time scale there, seconds in that woodland, shown he had barely moved beyond that wall, that he could not have seen what he claimed and so forth.

That he most certainly did have another girl on the go, he was planning to spend a week with her. That JJ may very well have found this out, that a confrontation may have taken place setting him off. That there was talk of already falling out at school that day, was he already angry? Seeming confrontational when seen by AB, beckoning the girl to go to him. Adoration turning to confrontation for a lad who was shown to not handle confrontation at all?

And on it goes, by no means all of it - He had the time, he had both means and opportunity. The sequence of events and sightings tied in with this. We have LK hearing noises. We have no evidence, forensic or otherwise of any altercation taken place anywhere bar that bottom area of the woodland strip. There was nothing found pointing this murder elsewhere. 

[snow66!]

There you have it, that was the scenario, it will always be the scenario. He met the girl and murdered her, he set to putting alibi in place firstly by calling the Jones house. That was his first thought after carrying out the deed, 'I need to have this time frame covered. Make it seem I had not met her therefore not murdered her?'

Absolutely, that he then attempted to cross the road without being seen, make his way to being changed and initially cleaned. A car came and he put his head down. That he got out of that coat, and came back out on to Newbattle road, making his way down to the entrance. Placing himself into further alibi, placing himself in different clothing to that which he had been seen in, and placing  himself away from there to be seen waiting somewhere else.

Once he had been seen, a safety time of alibi, he then took himself away from Newbattle road, for any further clean up, for putting alibi in place and disposal of evidence. That after he left the boys at 9pm he then had further time for putting anything else into motion. That he had communication with his mother, which was not about seeing if the girl had been to the  house, but discussing anything to do with covering up whatever he had told her took place in that first hour?

And then we add in the missing clothing, the knife, his drug habit, the extraordinary stories of being idling about for the best part of 80mins. The absolute fact the girl had never walked the path to his alone before, that she had never failed to not turn up to meet with him. That he had been the only one contacted to know of any change in her punishment, she had no means to contact anyone else. Then we move on to that search and the absolute fact he lied, his dog had not alerted to any body, he had not been where he claimed on that path, he had no reason for knowing where to go when entering that woodland. The time scale there, seconds in that woodland, shown he had barely moved beyond that wall, that he could not have seen what he claimed and so forth.

That he most certainly did have another girl on the go, he was planning to spend a week with her. That JJ may very well have found this out, that a confrontation may have taken place setting him off. That there was talk of already falling out at school that day, was he already angry? Seeming confrontational when seen by AB, beckoning the girl to go to him. Adoration turning to confrontation for a lad who was shown to not handle confrontation at all?

And on it goes, by no means all of it - He had the time, he had both means and opportunity. The sequence of events and sightings tied in with this. We have LK hearing noises. We have no evidence, forensic or otherwise of any altercation taken place anywhere bar that bottom area of the woodland strip. There was nothing found pointing this murder elsewhere.

Well,youv'e certainly covered everything there Parky. Well except the questions I actually asked you that is. I will need a while to answer your scenario and evidence anyway.

[snow66!]

There you have it, that was the scenario, it will always be the scenario. He met the girl and murdered her, he set to putting alibi in place firstly by calling the Jones house. That was his first thought after carrying out the deed, 'I need to have this time frame covered. Make it seem I had not met her therefore not murdered her?'

Absolutely, that he then attempted to cross the road without being seen, make his way to being changed and initially cleaned. A car came and he put his head down. That he got out of that coat, and came back out on to Newbattle road, making his way down to the entrance. Placing himself into further alibi, placing himself in different clothing to that which he had been seen in, and placing  himself away from there to be seen waiting somewhere else.

Once he had been seen, a safety time of alibi, he then took himself away from Newbattle road, for any further clean up, for putting alibi in place and disposal of evidence. That after he left the boys at 9pm he then had further time for putting anything else into motion. That he had communication with his mother, which was not about seeing if the girl had been to the  house, but discussing anything to do with covering up whatever he had told her took place in that first hour?

And then we add in the missing clothing, the knife, his drug habit, the extraordinary stories of being idling about for the best part of 80mins. The absolute fact the girl had never walked the path to his alone before, that she had never failed to not turn up to meet with him. That he had been the only one contacted to know of any change in her punishment, she had no means to contact anyone else. Then we move on to that search and the absolute fact he lied, his dog had not alerted to any body, he had not been where he claimed on that path, he had no reason for knowing where to go when entering that woodland. The time scale there, seconds in that woodland, shown he had barely moved beyond that wall, that he could not have seen what he claimed and so forth.

That he most certainly did have another girl on the go, he was planning to spend a week with her. That JJ may very well have found this out, that a confrontation may have taken place setting him off. That there was talk of already falling out at school that day, was he already angry? Seeming confrontational when seen by AB, beckoning the girl to go to him. Adoration turning to confrontation for a lad who was shown to not handle confrontation at all?

And on it goes, by no means all of it - He had the time, he had both means and opportunity. The sequence of events and sightings tied in with this. We have LK hearing noises. We have no evidence, forensic or otherwise of any altercation taken place anywhere bar that bottom area of the woodland strip. There was nothing found pointing this murder elsewhere.

OK,as far as timeframe and scenario goes Parky,if you prove LM didn't have the opportunity one need go no further.Has this been proved? Well thats what we are trying to determine.Time was indeed tight to say the least.

You say 50 minute time scale,but the thing is LM was allegedly seen 30 minutes after the murder by F/W.
So everything has to revolve around that time from there on in,agreed? The 50 minute window of opportunity is broken up at this point,giving us a specific time and location after the murder has taken place.
OK,you have decided that it was doable for LM timewise,but you still haven't explained what LM was doing 40 meters up from the entrance to RDP. Did he cross the road there? I see there is a bit of a brae at the other side of the road,did he come over that brae and cross the road to the gate? And which route did he take home from the gate thereafter?
You go from  'a car came and he put his head down'  to  'that he got out of that coat'.....I need the bit in between Parky,route from gate to house.Otherwise your scenario is incomplete.

Now,missing clothing.Well LM denies owning a parka till after the crime as you know and no debris was found,not much more can be said.
Knife? Well.to be honest,if I was innocent and being treated as a prime suspect I would get rid of any knives I owned too.Wouldn't you Parky?
Drug habbit? Drugs have been rife in Scotland for many years now.Was LM taking enough to turn him into a homicidal maniac? That would be a very rare occurrance indeed I would imagine,no?

Jodi never walked the path alone! All I can say to that is I have no idea.Had anyone ever met her on the RDP alone? Had any neighbours seen Jodi going to LM house on her own to meet him? No idea.What did the police determine on this issue? You say its an actual 'fact' that Jodi didn't ues the path on her own,but Jodi is the only one who could have answered that question for sure.

Search for Jodi? Well we know LM didn't lie over this issue,about Mia jumping up at the wall and Luke showing no emotion,the others changed their statements.
Luke Mitchell had another girlfriend and a confrontation set him off? Ok,dont know how many girlfriends LM had,but heres where we get a contradiction in the police case.Is it an unplanned killing where LM snapped and killed Jodi over girlfriend issues or is it a copycat killing of the Black Dahlia murder inspired by an obsession with Marilyn Manson? Which one is it? Cant be both.

Could it really have been a crime of passion in a sudden fit of rage,accidental you might say? Well no,obviously not.If that was the case Jodi would have been either hit over the head,strangled or just possibly stabbed.Luke would have immediately realised what he had done and panicked,leaving the scene ASAP. This did not happen as we know,the killer stayed at the scene for several minutes intentionally carrying out further obscene acts on the body.This was no argument that got out of hand,the killer,whoever it was new EXACTLY what he was goingto do to his victim,no doubt about it.So I think we can rule out the girlfriend nonsense,no?

Did LM really plan to meet and kill Jodi in this manner with the thought of getting away with it? How?
Did he plan to run home and wash, then burn incriminating evidence right away before Jodi's body was found? Was he counting on help from his family? What did he have in place?
We know he didn't have time to shower and burn clothes himself before being seen at the end of his street at 5.55. Did he just intend to bung the parka and other clothes into the fire and leave it? Had he everything planned for a one man operation? How did he know who would be in the house when he got back from the murder? When was he going to arrange an alibi? How did he know his family would give him an alibi?
There are so many things that LM could not have planned in advance.
Oh well,thats some questions and answers for you anyway Parky.

[Steve_uk]

OK,as far as timeframe and scenario goes Parky,if you prove LM didn't have the opportunity one need go no further.Has this been proved? Well thats what we are trying to determine.Time was indeed tight to say the least.

You say 50 minute time scale,but the thing is LM was allegedly seen 30 minutes after the murder by F/W.
So everything has to revolve around that time from there on in,agreed? The 50 minute window of opportunity is broken up at this point,giving us a specific time and location after the murder has taken place.
OK,you have decided that it was doable for LM timewise,but you still haven't explained what LM was doing 40 meters up from the entrance to RDP. Did he cross the road there? I see there is a bit of a brae at the other side of the road,did he come over that brae and cross the road to the gate? And which route did he take home from the gate thereafter?
You go from  'a car came and he put his head down'  to  'that he got out of that coat'.....I need the bit in between Parky,route from gate to house.Otherwise your scenario is incomplete.

Now,missing clothing.Well LM denies owning a parka till after the crime as you know and no debris was found,not much more can be said.
Knife? Well.to be honest,if I was innocent and being treated as a prime suspect I would get rid of any knives I owned too.Wouldn't you Parky?
Drug habbit? Drugs have been rife in Scotland for many years now.Was LM taking enough to turn him into a homicidal maniac? That would be a very rare occurrance indeed I would imagine,no?

Jodi never walked the path alone! All I can say to that is I have no idea.Had anyone ever met her on the RDP alone? Had any neighbours seen Jodi going to LM house on her own to meet him? No idea.What did the police determine on this issue? You say its an actual 'fact' that Jodi didn't ues the path on her own,but Jodi is the only one who could have answered that question for sure.

Search for Jodi? Well we know LM didn't lie over this issue,about Mia jumping up at the wall and Luke showing no emotion,the others changed their statements.
Luke Mitchell had another girlfriend and a confrontation set him off? Ok,dont know how many girlfriends LM had,but heres where we get a contradiction in the police case.Is it an unplanned killing where LM snapped and killed Jodi over girlfriend issues or is it a copycat killing of the Black Dahlia murder inspired by an obsession with Marilyn Manson? Which one is it? Cant be both.

Could it really have been a crime of passion in a sudden fit of rage,accidental you might say? Well no,obviously not.If that was the case Jodi would have been either hit over the head,strangled or just possibly stabbed.Luke would have immediately realised what he had done and panicked,leaving the scene ASAP. This did not happen as we know,the killer stayed at the scene for several minutes intentionally carrying out further obscene acts on the body.This was no argument that got out of hand,the killer,whoever it was new EXACTLY what he was goingto do to his victim,no doubt about it.So I think we can rule out the girlfriend nonsense,no?

Did LM really plan to meet and kill Jodi in this manner with the thought of getting away with it? How?
Did he plan to run home and wash, then burn incriminating evidence right away before Jodi's body was found? Was he counting on help from his family? What did he have in place?
We know he didn't have time to shower and burn clothes himself before being seen at the end of his street at 5.55. Did he just intend to bung the parka and other clothes into the fire and leave it? Had he everything planned for a one man operation? How did he know who would be in the house when he got back from the murder? When was he going to arrange an alibi? How did he know his family would give him an alibi?
There are so many things that LM could not have planned in advance.
Oh well,thats some questions and answers for you anyway Parky.

I'm going off Wikipedia for the timeframe. Post #125.

Luke Mitchell had another girlfriend. He hadn't been courting Jodi for weeks due to her being grounded for drug use. I know it's a stretch to then claim he killed her since she was subsequently surplus to requirements. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/SECRET+LOVE+OF+KILLER%3B+EXCLUSIVE+JODI+KILLER%27S+NEW+GIRL+REVEALED.-a0127912079

Sometimes murders are not Agatha Christie mysteries. Luke was in contact with Jodi via mobile telephone that evening. He was seen with her by Andrina Bryson. If it wasn't them the couple have not come forward in a murder investigation to eliminate themselves from the inquiry.

Luke had no alibi. He named a species of tree Jodi was lain against, and described a clasp in her hair. He was obstructive during police questioning.

The skunting knife was never found, though the pouch was, inscribed with "JJ 1989-2003". He had boasted on a previous occasion of being able to slit someone's throat.

[snow66!]

I'm going off Wikipedia for the timeframe. Post #125.

Luke Mitchell had another girlfriend. He hadn't been courting Jodi for weeks due to her being grounded for drug use. I know it's a stretch to then claim he killed her since she was subsequently surplus to requirements. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/SECRET+LOVE+OF+KILLER%3B+EXCLUSIVE+JODI+KILLER%27S+NEW+GIRL+REVEALED.-a0127912079

Sometimes murders are not Agatha Christie mysteries. Luke was in contact with Jodi via mobile telephone that evening. He was seen with her by Andrina Bryson. If it wasn't them the couple have not come forward in a murder investigation to eliminate themselves from the inquiry.

Luke had no alibi. He named a species of tree Jodi was lain against, and described a clasp in her hair. He was obstructive during police questioning.

The skunting knife was never found, though the pouch was, inscribed with "JJ 1989-2003". He had boasted on a previous occasion of being able to slit someone's throat.

Thanks Steve,so do you think the girlfriends had anything to do with the killing? Or was LM simply a psychotic copy cat killer obsessed with satanism?

[Parky41]

Absolute nonsense - That is repeating the lie?   

Search for Jodi? Well we know LM didn't lie over this issue,about Mia jumping up at the wall and Luke showing no emotion,the others changed their statements

That all time lie to place focus upon Jodi's family, where we see exactly who has been lying and for whom! 'That they all agreed with Luke then changed their minds' 'That by four weeks later they all said the dog did nothing and he went directly to the V' 'That by the time of the trial the Jury were not made aware of their first accounts, or of any changes' - All been a crock of s**t

For the benefit of those caught up and not caught up in the lie. The search trio had always said LM went directly to the V with his dog, that they had not changed their account within 4 weeks, that the Jury most certainly did hear of their first accounts, of them agreeing thus adopted as evidence. That this was never about 'dog and wall' It was always about the lies that LM had told from his very first account forward.

That "they had been some distance past not quite 20yards" Still "20yards" then "25yards" then drawing a map with X marks the spot, of being directly "parallel" to where the body lay over the wall, which as we know was 43ft past the V break. Why did he lie? He was attempting to show why he knew exactly where to go when entering the woodland, this claimed alert, of a dog coming to a halt, sticking its nose in the air and sniffing - Pretty comical if nothing else. That "they" had been him, dog, SK and JaJ's, that he returned to access the woods whilst they kept on walking - Lies. So yes, in its most basic sense, there was the dog and wall, who changed the goal posts, who lied and moved them to another place entirely = LM.

JaJ's and her change from "all being in hysterics" to LM not being. Was she lying? or reliving those screams in her head when giving that first account? Did LM say he was in hysterics, no. Did AW or SK say he was in hysterics, no. Did JaJ's say in her change that SK was in hysterics, no, she still spoke of him retching etc. So, not just about LM, she was clarifying who was doing what, wasn't she?

The emergency services of him being fine, the police, the same. His own mother is trying to get a hold of him and he blanks her, reaches out to no one, not her, his brother or father. Hysterics, upset, needing anything? - So context, JaJ's and that change, that clarification, of her stating it wasn't that everyone was the same as her and her gran, screaming in hysterics?

[snow66!]

Absolute nonsense - That is repeating the lie?   

That all time lie to place focus upon Jodi's family, where we see exactly who has been lying and for whom! 'That they all agreed with Luke then changed their minds' 'That by four weeks later they all said the dog did nothing and he went directly to the V' 'That by the time of the trial the Jury were not made aware of their first accounts, or of any changes' - All been a crock of s**t

For the benefit of those caught up and not caught up in the lie. The search trio had always said LM went directly to the V with his dog, that they had not changed their account within 4 weeks, that the Jury most certainly did hear of their first accounts, of them agreeing thus adopted as evidence. That this was never about 'dog and wall' It was always about the lies that LM had told from his very first account forward.

That "they had been some distance past not quite 20yards" Still "20yards" then "25yards" then drawing a map with X marks the spot, of being directly "parallel" to where the body lay over the wall, which as we know was 43ft past the V break. Why did he lie? He was attempting to show why he knew exactly where to go when entering the woodland, this claimed alert, of a dog coming to a halt, sticking its nose in the air and sniffing - Pretty comical if nothing else. That "they" had been him, dog, SK and JaJ's, that he returned to access the woods whilst they kept on walking - Lies. So yes, in its most basic sense, there was the dog and wall, who changed the goal posts, who lied and moved them to another place entirely = LM.

JaJ's and her change from "all being in hysterics" to LM not being. Was she lying? or reliving those screams in her head when giving that first account? Did LM say he was in hysterics, no. Did AW or SK say he was in hysterics, no. Did JaJ's say in her change that SK was in hysterics, no, she still spoke of him retching etc. So, not just about LM, she was clarifying who was doing what, wasn't she?

The emergency services of him being fine, the police, the same. His own mother is trying to get a hold of him and he blanks her, reaches out to no one, not her, his brother or father. Hysterics, upset, needing anything? - So context, JaJ's and that change, that clarification, of her stating it wasn't that everyone was the same as her and her gran, screaming in hysterics?

OK thanks Parky,you've made your position clear on the finding of Jodi.I may have to look into it again.