Author Topic: Luke's Address  (Read 30626 times)

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Offline snow66!

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Luke's Address
« on: June 30, 2023, 07:50:PM »
Does anyone at all know what Luke Mitchells address was in Newbattle Abbey Crescent?
That is, the house number of his mothers property,the house that Luke lived in before his arrest?
Its just that after looking into the case I cant seem to find this bit of information anywhere,not in any podcast or book,or anywhere else.Its just that I cant work out a complete crime scene scenario or make a final decicion about Lukes guilt without knowing the exact location of the house in relation to the surrounding woods etc.
I presume you all took the location of the house into consideration before making your final judgement on the case?

« Last Edit: July 01, 2023, 11:48:PM by snow66! »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2023, 11:59:PM »
Does anyone at all know what Luke Mitchells address was in Newbattle Abbey Crescent?
That is the house number of his mothers property,the house that Luke lived in before his arrest?
Its just that after looking into the case I cant seem to find this bit of information anywhere,not in any podcast or book,or anywhere else.Its just that I cant work out a complete crime scene scenario or make a final decicion about Lukes guilt without knowing the exact location of the house in relation to the surrounding woods etc.
I presume you all took the location of the house into consideration before making your final judgement on the case?
It's mentioned in this article: https://www.scotsman.com/news/jodi-trial-shown-rock-stars-murder-pictures-2509496

Offline snow66!

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2023, 12:11:AM »
It's mentioned in this article: https://www.scotsman.com/news/jodi-trial-shown-rock-stars-murder-pictures-2509496
At last! Thankyou very much Steve,well spotted.Now I can locate the property,the house numbers can be seen on google maps.

Offline snow66!

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2023, 12:48:PM »
Well,as you can see Steve,the house is in the centre of the housing scheme away from any surrounding trees and is backed onto another row of houses so impossible to sneak in the back door.


Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2023, 03:24:PM »
Well,as you can see Steve,the house is in the centre of the housing scheme away from any surrounding trees and is backed onto another row of houses so impossible to sneak in the back door.
Maybe he just walked in and no neighbours were around to observe him go back inside his own house. Did you watch the Pat Brown video?

Offline snow66!

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2023, 04:17:PM »
Maybe he just walked in and no neighbours were around to observe him go back inside his own house. Did you watch the Pat Brown video?
Yes I have watched most of the available podcasts Steve,she addresse's some of the obstacles like getting Jodi undressed and so on but also gets some of the facts slightly wrong.

BUT,as you can imagine Steve,I mainly concentrate on going through the crime scene scenarios,and as for no neighbours or motorists seeing Luke return to his house after the murders this seems odd,he was apparently seen at one end of the path then the other then on Newbattle Road and also sitting on a wall near to his house.
The question is,was he simply witnessed on his way back from the crime between 5.40 and 6.30 or had he already been home from the murder scene and washed up and left again at 5.40 before being witnessed by Walsh/fleming,Heatley and the push bike boys?
Both scenarios cause problems for the prosecution.
So,I am afraid this is another case of reasonable doubt for me Steve.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2023, 04:33:PM »
Yes I have watched most of the available podcasts Steve,she addresse's some of the obstacles like getting Jodi undressed and so on but also gets some of the facts slightly wrong.

BUT,as you can imagine Steve,I mainly concentrate on going through the crime scene scenarios,and as for no neighbours or motorists seeing Luke return to his house after the murders this seems odd,he was apparently seen at one end of the path then the other then on Newbattle Road and also sitting on a wall near to his house.
The question is,was he simply witnessed on his way back from the crime between 5.40 and 6.30 or had he already been home from the murder scene and washed up and left again at 5.40 before being witnessed by Walsh/fleming,Heatley and the push bike boys?
Both scenarios cause problems for the prosecution.
So,I am afraid this is another case of reasonable doubt for me Steve.
What I recall from the Pat Brown video: Jodi was excited to meet Luke after being grounded for smoking cannabis provided by him. She was coming from her house in Easthouses, Luke from the Newbattle opposite end of Roan's Dyke Path. Andrina Bryson spotted a couple similar to the two at the top of the path, a couple who if it was not Jodi and Luke have never come forward to eliminate themselves from a murder inquiry.

Luke was in communication with Jodi that evening via mobile telephone. Luke telephoned the speaking clock at 1654, which seems odd if he were still inside his house.  Pat Brown goes into the detail of the timings, which I can't recall offhand. A search party sets out to look for Jodi around 11:30pm. Luke discovers the body and is able to give details such as the species of tree she was found by and the clasp she wore in her hair. Luke's alibi that he was mashing potatoes at home is uncorroborated.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2023, 04:37:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline snow66!

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2023, 04:50:PM »
What I recall from the Pat Brown video: Jodi was excited to meet Luke after being grounded for smoking cannabis provided by him. She was coming from her house in Easthouses, Luke from the Newbattle opposite end of Roan's Dyke Path. Andrina Bryson spotted a couple similar to the two at the top of the path, a couple who if it was not Jodi and Luke have never come forward to eliminate themselves from a murder inquiry.

Luke was in communication with Jodi that evening via mobile telephone. Luke telephoned the speaking clock at 1654, which seems odd if he were still inside his house.  Pat Brown goes into the detail of the timings, which I can't recall offhand. A search party sets out to look for Jodi around 11:30pm. Luke discovers the body and is able to give details such as the species of tree she was found by and the clasp she wore in her hair. Luke's alibi that he was mashing potatoes at home is uncorroborated.
Yes,that is most of the prosecution case Steve,Luke going straight to the 'v' in the wall without the help of Mia,burning the parka,missing knife ,no alibi and so on.

But its when you start asking questions about the time line,the narrow window of opportunity for Luke etc. And you have proven that Luke could not have covertly returned to his house unseen after the murder by the location of the dwelling in the scheme.
 One simple question Steve,at what time did Luke return home after the murder to clean up and leave his jacket to be destroyed? You will find that is not as easy to answer as you may think!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2023, 04:53:PM »
Yes,that is most of the prosecution case Steve,Luke going straight to the 'v' in the wall without the help of Mia,burning the parka,missing knife ,no alibi and so on.

But its when you start asking questions about the time line,the narrow window of opportunity for Luke etc. And you have proven that Luke could not have covertly returned to his house unseen after the murder by the location of the dwelling in the scheme.
 One simple question Steve,at what time did Luke return home after the murder to clean up and leave his jacket to be destroyed? You will find that is not as easy to answer as you may think!
Pat Brown thinks he may have cleaned himself up in the river. In any case there's several hours left unaccounted for Luke's whereabouts if he hadn't met Jodi.

Offline snow66!

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2023, 05:11:PM »
Pat Brown thinks he may have cleaned himself up in the river. In any case there's several hours left unaccounted for Luke's whereabouts if he hadn't met Jodi.
OK,a similar question Steve,when did Luke return home after the murder in order to tell his mother what he had done and arange an alibi.Also,his whereabouts were accounted for from about 5.40 till 9.00 that evening,leaving it a bit late to start cleaning up after that Steve,Jodi's body could have been found by that time.
Yes Luke was witnessed on the streets from around 5.45 till 6.30 when he phoned David High,then they spent the rest of the evening at the Abbey before Luke went home at 9.00.
So when  exactly is Pat saying that Luke cleaned up,after 9.00? Dodgy Steve,Jodi's body may have been found by then and an APB sent out regarding Luke.
Pat needs to give  an exact coherent believable time line of the crime and aftermath.
Does she do this Steve? Or anyone else for that matter.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2023, 08:06:PM by snow66! »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2023, 05:51:PM »
OK,a similar question Steve,when did Luke return home after the murder in order to tell his mother what he had done and arange an alibi.Also,his whereabouts were accounted for from about 5.40 till 9.00 that evening,leaving it a bit late to start cleaning up after that Steve,Jodi's body could have been found by that time.
Yes Luke was witnessed on the streets from around 5.45 till 6.30 when he phoned David High,then they spent the rest of the evening at the Abbey before Luke went home at 9.00.
So when is exactly is Pat saying that Luke cleaned up,after 9.00? Dodgy Steve,Jodi's body may have been found by then and an APB sent out regarding Luke.
Pat needs to give  an exact coherent believable time line of the crime and aftermath.
Does she do this Steve? Or anyone else for that matter.
I assume he cleans up directly after the murder, then proceeds to establish his alibi. Maybe you could refresh my memory as to the details of his movements from 1745-2100?

1705-1720: Witness cycling along the path hears a strangling sound from the other side of the wall.

1730: Luke calls Jodi's house but receives no reply.

1740: Luke calls again and speaks to Jodi's stepfather, who informs him Jodi has left to meet him. (Jodi had left the house at 1650 and had permission to stay out until 2200).

2241: Jodi's mother sends text to Luke's mobile phone.

2300: Search for Jodi begins.

So from 1740 to 2241 Luke has not seen Jodi, yet expresses no concern whatsoever for her welfare.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2023, 05:52:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline snow66!

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2023, 06:32:PM »
I assume he cleans up directly after the murder, then proceeds to establish his alibi. Maybe you could refresh my memory as to the details of his movements from 1745-2100?

1705-1720: Witness cycling along the path hears a strangling sound from the other side of the wall.

1730: Luke calls Jodi's house but receives no reply.

1740: Luke calls again and speaks to Jodi's stepfather, who informs him Jodi has left to meet him. (Jodi had left the house at 1650 and had permission to stay out until 2200).

2241: Jodi's mother sends text to Luke's mobile phone.

2300: Search for Jodi begins.

So from 1740 to 2241 Luke has not seen Jodi, yet expresses no concern whatsoever for her welfare.
OK steve,first point ,when you say cleans up directly after the murder,do you mean in the river or after he has returned home?

Time line-17.45-50,seen by Fleming and Walsh at the Newbattle end of the path while driving past,18.00 seen by the push bike boys nearer Newbattle Crescent sitting on wall,18,05,seen by Carol Heatley in driveway,18.20 seen by one of the push bike boys on his retutn,18.35 phones David High and waits for him,19.00 heads to the Abbey with David High to meet Tulloch,19.00-21.00 mucks about at Abbey and plays on Tarzan rope.The boys all head for home round about nine or so.

1740 to 2241 no concern about Jodi. Why wasn't Alan Ovens concerned when Luke phoned and told him that Jodi had not arrived?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2023, 07:00:PM »
OK steve,first point ,when you say cleans up directly after the murder,do you mean in the river or after he has returned home?

Time line-17.45-50,seen by Fleming and Walsh at the Newbattle end of the path while driving past,18.00 seen by the push bike boys nearer Newbattle Crescent sitting on wall,18,05,seen by Carol Heatley in driveway,18.20 seen by one of the push bike boys on his retutn,18.35 phones David High and waits for him,19.00 heads to the Abbey with David High to meet Tulloch,19.00-21.00 mucks about at Abbey and plays on Tarzan rope.The boys all head for home round about nine or so.

1740 to 2241 no concern about Jodi. Why wasn't Alan Ovens concerned when Luke phoned and told him that Jodi had not arrived?
Did Alan Ovens know Jodi and had they arranged to meet? Pat Brown suggests Luke tied up Jodi and killed her from behind, hence very little blood spatter on his clothing.

Offline snow66!

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2023, 07:42:PM »
Did Alan Ovens know Jodi and had they arranged to meet? Pat Brown suggests Luke tied up Jodi and killed her from behind, hence very little blood spatter on his clothing.
You are getting into the more complicated questions now Steve,the killing of Jodi is beyond my understanding.OK,lets try and make some sense of it.Jodi was found tied up,but why and when was she tied up? Pat suggests that Jodi undressed voluntarily for a bit of fun with Luke,ok,I can buy that,makes sense.But did she let Luke tie her up at this stage too? And if so,what happened next? We know that Jodi was severely beaten to start with and she was hit on the back of the head,so when did the knife attack start and why did she have defensive wounds on her arm if she was bound ?

And when did the knife attack start,after the beating  had finished? And remember Jodi had lost a lot of blood from other wounds before her throat was cut,she had many cuts to the face including her mouth/throat and one arm wound cut through to the bone causing severe blood loss.
It is unlikely that any of these cuts could have been inflicted from behind Steve,no?

And remember her throat was cut several times Steve,not just once.All from behind? Seems odd.
Besides,his arm at least would have been covered in blood surely?

If you read the police scenarios,I dont think anyone can decide if Jodi was stripped naked before or after she was killed or when she was tied up.But it seems a pointless exercise tying someone up once they are dead,dont you think Steve? Or indeed in the middle of the assault,and  how did the defensive wounds to the arms come about if Jodi was tied up before the killer started slashing with the knife?
Cant work it out.
Anyway,yes,as far as I know Alan Ovens knew that Jodi left to meet Luke.Although as you know it is claimed that he told Luke'THEY have left'.
Anyway,I would still like to know where and when you think Luke cleaned up after the murder and when he told his mother what he had done?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2023, 11:38:PM by snow66! »

Offline snow66!

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Re: Luke's Address
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2023, 07:45:PM »
And wasn't her clothes cut off Steve? Meaning they were probably removed after death?
Still ,they were mainly blood free as far as I know,very strange indeed,very strange!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2023, 07:48:PM by snow66! »