Luke's Address

[Parky41]

Yes Parky,you put your points over well.
But like Dave or any other person who thinks Luke Mitchell is guilty,unless you can give me a complete scenario/timeframe of events,I must continue to have doubt of LMs guilt.

The scenario was - That he met with Jodi just after she had left home, murdered her. That the sighting by F&W was him making his way away from the scene. He had to cross that road, there was no other way to get into the woodland beside his estate. Why was he standing at the gate with his head down, looking to the ground? Then quickly looking up to see the car moving away. Then nothing for a good 15mins. Then seen touching 6pm until around 6:20pm, then nothing until in the boys company in the Abbey.

What did he need to do? He needed out of that clothing, he needed very little of himself cleaned, the clothing and knife needed disposed of, he needed alibi, he needed to be seen to be waiting on the girl. And the crown showed he had means and opportunity to do so. No one knows exactly what took place.

Clearly the contention by the Crown was he was seen meeting a girl, murdered in a woodland strip they frequented together, seen again at the wooden gate after leaving the scene. That the call to the Jones house was putting alibi in place, to make it seem like they had not met by this point. That he placed himself around the entrance of the estate to further alibi, to make himself seen, seen to be waiting on a meeting he claimed was taken place later. That this was a window of opportunity, moving out of sight again, after being seen several times in that short period of time. He above all needed alibi and he needed to be seen waiting on a girl they (police etc) would know had left to meet with him. Of the cyclist hearing noises from the woodland, strange enough to make his stop and listen out for anything else.

That his alibi was shown to be false, that SM had been coached by his mother in what to say. That he owned/wore the clothing he was seen in pre-murder. We hear from 8 witnesses whom where chosen from a selection of more who gave statements around parka. That he did carry/use a brown handled skunting knife pre-murder. That he had guilty knowledge of where the victims body was, injuries, clothing and so forth, the time factors. The clear differences in accounts from him over that of the other three.

This is by no means all of it - But certainly being seen, clothing and knife gone. A story with gaping holes and extraordinary explanations. A story that was filled to the brim with lies which were exposed.

Again, it is not about guilt/innocence and more to do with highlighting why he was a suspect, why he could not be eliminated. I don't for one minute buy into this conspiracy nonsense doing the rounds. Clear and sound reasons, strong circumstantial evidence. That there was nothing found pointing this murder elsewhere.

[snow66!]

i dont think they woul of done a reconstruction ideo giing the time as 5pm if it wasnt 5pm it kind of eafeats the object of doing one

Yes thats true nugnug,but then that would have been too late for the Andrina Bryson sighting.
And as you know,they had to start with a time of 5.15 for the murder,which suited a guilty LM then work around it.

[snow66!]

The scenario was - That he met with Jodi just after she had left home, murdered her. That the sighting by F&W was him making his way away from the scene. He had to cross that road, there was no other way to get into the woodland beside his estate. Why was he standing at the gate with his head down, looking to the ground? Then quickly looking up to see the car moving away. Then nothing for a good 15mins. Then seen touching 6pm until around 6:20pm, then nothing until in the boys company in the Abbey.

What did he need to do? He needed out of that clothing, he needed very little of himself cleaned, the clothing and knife needed disposed of, he needed alibi, he needed to be seen to be waiting on the girl. And the crown showed he had means and opportunity to do so. No one knows exactly what took place.

Clearly the contention by the Crown was he was seen meeting a girl, murdered in a woodland strip they frequented together, seen again at the wooden gate after leaving the scene. That the call to the Jones house was putting alibi in place, to make it seem like they had not met by this point. That he placed himself around the entrance of the estate to further alibi, to make himself seen, seen to be waiting on a meeting he claimed was taken place later. That this was a window of opportunity, moving out of sight again, after being seen several times in that short period of time. He above all needed alibi and he needed to be seen waiting on a girl they (police etc) would know had left to meet with him. Of the cyclist hearing noises from the woodland, strange enough to make his stop and listen out for anything else.

That his alibi was shown to be false, that SM had been coached by his mother in what to say. That he owned/wore the clothing he was seen in pre-murder. We hear from 8 witnesses whom where chosen from a selection of more who gave statements around parka. That he did carry/use a brown handled skunting knife pre-murder. That he had guilty knowledge of where the victims body was, injuries, clothing and so forth, the time factors. The clear differences in accounts from him over that of the other three.

This is by no means all of it - But certainly being seen, clothing and knife gone. A story with gaping holes and extraordinary explanations. A story that was filled to the brim with lies which were exposed.

Again, it is not about guilt/innocence and more to do with highlighting why he was a suspect, why he could not be eliminated. I don't for one minute buy into this conspiracy nonsense doing the rounds. Clear and sound reasons, strong circumstantial evidence. That there was nothing found pointing this murder elsewhere.

Yes,again very good,I see where your coming from Parky,I get your arguments for guilt,although the 4 inch knife was not capable of inflicting the wounds.
But again,no credible time line I'm afraid.Luke simply hasn't got time to get home through the woods,dump the jacket  and walk to the end of his street within 10 minutes,maybe 15.

[Parky41]

Yes,again very good,I see where your coming from Parky,I get your arguments for guilt,although the 4 inch knife was not capable of inflicting the wounds.
But again,no credible time line I'm afraid.Luke simply hasn't got time to get home through the woods,go home,dump the jacket  and walk to the end of his street within 10 minutes,maybe 15.

Really, it is 7mins the normal way at a normal pace. That is from the actual path to house. Back onto Newbattle road a shorter distance still, from where he was seen. One is not going at any normal pace, however, allowing for any brief clean, not traipsing anything on his feet. We are working around 10 -15mins max here. 3-4 mins time distance home, couple of minutes that brief clean, probably plonking the coat at this point? Home for another jacket etc. and back out to the road via the woodland? Taking into consideration, what was vital, he needed changed and he needed to be seen to be waiting ASAP?

This, without being seen - That's just it, he wasn't seen. Not from 5:30pm until touching 6pm where he was supposed to have been. Not from 6:20pm until 7pm on that road. Nothing until actually with the boys well after 7pm. Yet we see, that when he actually was around the entrance of the estate, he was seen and several times.

In his story, not seen leaving home, not seen walking through the estate to the entrance. He actually said he was home just after 9pm, his mother said he was home at that time, he left the boys around that time.  We see that this was actually false, he was seen arriving home alone, no dog, around 10pm. Not seen by SM at home and not seen by SM when he exited the estate some time shortly after 6:20pm.

Whatever was being burnt in the Mitchell garden was enough for it to be denied? Not rocket science - 6 houses, Mitchell centre with one over the back. 5 of them were not having a fire that evening, only one of them was, smoke, seen alight, strange smell. Little clues, he said the call to his mother around 7pm was asking if Jodi had been to the house, that she was in the garden and may have not heard her?

Ok, so she could not have gotten past him, but how did he know his mother was in the garden at that time? He was supposed to have been away from home from 5:30pm? No concern with her, knowing her son had been away that length of time, around 90mins later and tells her to tell Jodi he would be in the Abbey if she arrived? Claims to be home around 9pm just after, the same again, nothing. But he wasn't home anyway?

[snow66!]

Really, it is 7mins the normal way at a normal pace. That is from the actual path to house. Back onto Newbattle road a shorter distance still, from where he was seen. One is not going at any normal pace, however, allowing for any brief clean, not traipsing anything on his feet. We are working around 10 -15mins max here. 3-4 mins time distance home, couple of minutes that brief clean, probably plonking the coat at this point? Home for another jacket etc. and back out to the road via the woodland? Taking into consideration, what was vital, he needed changed and he needed to be seen to be waiting ASAP?

This, without being seen - That's just it, he wasn't seen. Not from 5:30pm until touching 6pm where he was supposed to have been. Not from 6:20pm until 7pm on that road. Nothing until actually with the boys well after 7pm. Yet we see, that when he actually was around the entrance of the estate, he was seen and several times.

In his story, not seen leaving home, not seen walking through the estate to the entrance. He actually said he was home just after 9pm, his mother said he was home at that time, he left the boys around that time.  We see that this was actually false, he was seen arriving home alone, no dog, around 10pm. Not seen by SM at home and not seen by SM when he exited the estate some time shortly after 6:20pm.

Whatever was being burnt in the Mitchell garden was enough for it to be denied? Not rocket science - 6 houses, Mitchell centre with one over the back. 5 of them were not having a fire that evening, only one of them was, smoke, seen alight, strange smell. Little clues, he said the call to his mother around 7pm was asking if Jodi had been to the house, that she was in the garden and may have not heard her?

Ok, so she could not have gotten past him, but how did he know his mother was in the garden at that time? He was supposed to have been away from home from 5:30pm? No concern with her, knowing her son had been away that length of time, around 90mins later and tells her to tell Jodi he would be in the Abbey if she arrived? Claims to be home around 9pm just after, the same again, nothing. But he wasn't home anyway?

I think I will need to visit the crime scene and surrounding area and check the times and distances for myself Parky.

[Parky41]

although the 4 inch knife was not capable of inflicting the wounds.

A lock knife, a 4 inch blade doubling in length. Skunting knife. Used for hunting, camping and survival. What do you imagine such a knife does when being used for hunting? Think of a surgeon and a scalpel used in surgery? The size, the type surgery they are used for, wide and varied. It is a myth applying that the size of knife was not capable of such injuries.

Used to also deflect from the absolute fact he had one pre-murder, that it disappeared. There is no, what does it matter, it couldn't have caused those injuries, it matters a great deal

[snow66!]

A lock knife, a 4 inch blade doubling in length. Skunting knife. Used for hunting, camping and survival. What do you imagine such a knife does when being used for hunting? Think of a surgeon and a scalpel used in surgery? The size, the type surgery they are used for, wide and varied. It is a myth applying that the size of knife was not capable of such injuries.

Used to also deflect from the absolute fact he had one pre-murder, that it disappeared. There is no, what does it matter, it couldn't have caused those injuries, it matters a great deal

I'll check what Busittal said Parky.

[snow66!]

Really, it is 7mins the normal way at a normal pace. That is from the actual path to house. Back onto Newbattle road a shorter distance still, from where he was seen. One is not going at any normal pace, however, allowing for any brief clean, not traipsing anything on his feet. We are working around 10 -15mins max here. 3-4 mins time distance home, couple of minutes that brief clean, probably plonking the coat at this point? Home for another jacket etc. and back out to the road via the woodland? Taking into consideration, what was vital, he needed changed and he needed to be seen to be waiting ASAP?

This, without being seen - That's just it, he wasn't seen. Not from 5:30pm until touching 6pm where he was supposed to have been. Not from 6:20pm until 7pm on that road. Nothing until actually with the boys well after 7pm. Yet we see, that when he actually was around the entrance of the estate, he was seen and several times.

In his story, not seen leaving home, not seen walking through the estate to the entrance. He actually said he was home just after 9pm, his mother said he was home at that time, he left the boys around that time.  We see that this was actually false, he was seen arriving home alone, no dog, around 10pm. Not seen by SM at home and not seen by SM when he exited the estate some time shortly after 6:20pm.

Whatever was being burnt in the Mitchell garden was enough for it to be denied? Not rocket science - 6 houses, Mitchell centre with one over the back. 5 of them were not having a fire that evening, only one of them was, smoke, seen alight, strange smell. Little clues, he said the call to his mother around 7pm was asking if Jodi had been to the house, that she was in the garden and may have not heard her?

Ok, so she could not have gotten past him, but how did he know his mother was in the garden at that time? He was supposed to have been away from home from 5:30pm? No concern with her, knowing her son had been away that length of time, around 90mins later and tells her to tell Jodi he would be in the Abbey if she arrived? Claims to be home around 9pm just after, the same again, nothing. But he wasn't home anyway?

He wasn't seen for 'ten' minutes Parky.
F/W 5.45 then push bike boys ten minutes later around 5.55.And as I have said,that is counting on Luke crossing the road immediately after being seen by F/W and arriving at the end of his street just as the bike boys go past.

You said 5.30 until 6.00.
Anyway,I am assuming you are familiar with the area,so tell me if I get this right.
Luke crosses the road after F/W go past,he enters the woods on the other side,he crosses the Ochre burn,makes his way through the trees until he comes to the River Esk.Is that right so far?
If so,how does he cross the river? Are there any wooden bridges or logs in that area?
Anyway,he somehow crosses the river and what looks like another burn,before emerging onto the open grass area where he circles round and enters Newbattle Abbey crescent,he walks past about six or seven houses and hes home.
Is this the route you are talking about Parky? And you maintain this can be done in 3-4 minutes?

[snow66!]

OK,I have measured both routes with a scale rule,that is through the woods to Lukes house and straight up Newbattle road to Lukes house using the path entrance as the starting point'
Now,using as direct a path as possible through the woods,this route is actually about 20 meters longer than using Newbattle road.Check it out.
Yet you say this route can be done in 3-4 minutes Parky over rough ground and crossing waterways.
How is this possible if it takes 7minutes by road?
Have you actually timed it yourself?

[Parky41]

OK,I have measured both routes with a scale rule,that is through the woods to Lukes house and straight up Newbattle road to Lukes house using the path entrance as the starting point'
Now,using as direct a path as possible through the woods,this route is actually about 20 meters longer than using Newbattle road.Check it out.
Yet you say this route can be done in 3-4 minutes Parky over rough ground and crossing waterways.
How is this possible if it takes 7minutes by road?
Have you actually timed it yourself?

You are on the wrong side of the road, the gate sighting by F&W is north of the path entrance, opposite side. N and further down (metal now) We are applying here your times, the absolute minimum time, where you are trying to work out if he had went home at this point - When truth is, we do not know that he did. It is on the assumption he had to have went home, showered, fully changed and back on to the road to be seen, to be waiting on the girl.

This 7mins, what I have said, always - Is that if someone is not just walking along at an even pace then this time is shortened. If they are moving at haste, shorter still. Basically, if they are moving at twice the pace then the time is halved, that is not even running full out. That is simple logic. Now LM did not have to go the distance of 7mins and back anyway (10mins). There is nearly 4/5mins knocked off that from where he was seen at the cottages. So, we are talking 9/10 mins here at a normal pace. To house the normal way and back out. 7 to house, 3 back to cottages.

What would it have taken him to clean his coupon and soles of footwear? Absolutely no time at all, and again, this is not the time frame we are applying for setting about any further clean up, this most certainly would have come after disappearing from around 6:20pm.

So, this 9/10 mins of moving time. Easily halved. The remainder for brief clean and grabbing other clothing.

Let's apply 8mins moving time, that is only 2mins less of the normal pace.  A couple of mins for the most basic of clean and change. Clean (obvs) not within the house. There would have been virtually nothing of him exposed to the elements, that is simple fact. And it is of course the very minimum of time, working from this 17:45pm until 17:55pm. SL had it worked out at a minimum of 13mins. Damn, if he ran like marathon man whilst in the woodland both ways, even less. But keeping it real and doubling that pace is more than feasible for any moving time, darting about? 

[Parky41]

Ok, so down, heading north still from the old wooden gate (F&W), one, if leaving it until then, can enter woodland via the Esk Trail, almost across from BTH. This is the main area of the woodland, to the right of the path in there, that lies adjacent to the housing estate he lived in.

My 5:30 - 6pm was using LM's story. He is the one who would have had to leave home at half past to make the call for 17:32pm from the wall at the estate entrance. He was not seen at the estate entrance at all between those times, nor walking down through the estate.

It was the Crowns contention, that when LM was seen at the cottages, this was him making his way to the entrance and not the other way around, that he had not walked from the entrance up to the cottages.

You were applying that he just had to be seen, I was showing that he most certainly was not, not where he claimed to be for the best part of 80mins and more, bar that small window of opportunity from touching 6pm until around 6:20pm, not even by SM when exiting the estate.

[snow66!]

Ok, so down, heading north still from the old wooden gate (F&W), one, if leaving it until then, can enter woodland via the Esk Trail, almost across from BTH. This is the main area of the woodland, to the right of the path in there, that lies adjacent to the housing estate he lived in.

My 5:30 - 6pm was using LM's story. He is the one who would have had to leave home at half past to make the call for 17:32pm from the wall at the estate entrance. He was not seen at the estate entrance at all between those times, nor walking down through the estate.

It was the Crowns contention, that when LM was seen at the cottages, this was him making his way to the entrance and not the other way around, that he had not walked from the entrance up to the cottages.

You were applying that he just had to be seen, I was showing that he most certainly was not, not where he claimed to be for the best part of 80mins and more, bar that small window of opportunity from touching 6pm until around 6:20pm, not even by SM when exiting the estate.

I,m completely lost now Parky,I will need a while to study your last two posts and get my bearings.

[Bubo bubo]

I,m completely lost now Parky,I will need a while to study your last two posts and get my bearings.

I think he is leading you up the Garden (Roans Dyke) path.

[Parky41]

I,m completely lost now Parky,I will need a while to study your last two posts and get my bearings.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8775001,-3.068906,3a,90y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swuPspnWU3xkGdzaWjY_erg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

This is the gate of the sighting, used to be wooden.

[Parky41]

I think he is leading you up the Garden (Roans Dyke) path.

That was LM.