Luke's Address

[Steve_uk]

You are getting into the more complicated questions now Steve,the killing of Jodi is beyond my understanding.OK,lets try and make some sense of it.Jodi was found tied up,but why and when was she tied up? Pat suggests that Jodi undressed voluntarily for a bit of fun with Luke,ok,I can buy that,makes sense.But did she let Luke tie her up at this stage too? And if so,what happened next? We know that Jodi was severely beaten to start with and she was hit on the back of the head,so when did the knife attack start and why did she have defensive wounds on her arm if she was bound ?

And when did the knife attack start,after the beating  had finished? And remember Jodi had lost a lot of blood from other wounds before her throat was cut,she had many cuts to the face including her mouth/throat and one arm wound cut through to the bone causing severe blood loss.
It is unlikely that any of these cuts could have been inflicted from benind Steve,no?

And remember her throat was cut several times Steve,not just once.All from behind? Seems odd.
Besides,his arm at least would have been covered in blood surely?

If you read the police scenarios,I dont think anyone can decide if Jodi was stripped naked before or after she was killed or when she was tied up.But it seems a pointless exercise tying someone up once they are dead,dont you think Steve? Or indeed in the middle of the assault,and  how did the defensive wounds to the arms come about if Jodi was tied up before the killer started slashing with the knife?
Cant work it out.
Anyway,yes,as far as I know Alan Ovens knew that Jodi left to meet Luke.Although as you know it is claimed that he told Luke'THEY have left'.
Anyway,I would still like to know where and when you think Luke cleaned up after the murder and when he told his mother what he had done?

To my knowledge there were no defensive wounds, suggesting Luke tied her up to begin with.

I think if Luke's movements are accounted for from 1745-2100 as you claim there must have been only a small window of opportunity for him to clean himself up, ditch the coat and the knife and wash himself. It puts Corinne in the picture-allegedly-as an accessory.

[snow66!]

To my knowledge there were no defensive wounds, suggesting Luke tied her up to begin with.

I think if Luke's movements are accounted for from 1745-2100 as you claim there must have been only a small window of opportunity for him to clean himself up, ditch the coat and the knife and wash himself. It puts Corinne in the picture-allegedly-as an accessory.

OK thanks Steve,but if I may say so,you are simply not looking deeply enough into the events/scenario. I will give you my thoughts.

What I have been trying to draw out of you is,when did Luke return home after the murder and give Corinne the bombshell news that he had killed Jodi and ask for her help? Now surely we can agree that it was at least sometime that evening,right? So just what are the options?
Option 1.Between 5.30-5.40 [Jodi was still alive at 5.15 as witnessed by Leonard Kelly,so had still to be mutilated.Hence the killer could not have left the scene till about 5.20 If it was Luke he would take about ten minutes to get home,hence 5.30 before he gets back home]

Option 2.Witnesses Fleming and Walsh actually see Luke at 5.50 on his way home,he is then seen near his house sitting on a wall around 6.05 then again between 6.20-30,so could have sneaked in at this time for fifteen or twenty minutes.

Option 3.Between 6.35 and 7.00 when he is waiting for David High.

Option 4.At 9.00 when he returns from the Abbey.

OK,what about option 1,? Well as we can see time is very limited,and we have to believe that Luke went in,told his mother the shattering news of what he had done,change his clothes,wash?? Arrange and agree on an alibi with his mother who must have instantly accepted what Luke had done and decided to cover for him.All this in ten minutes,and we know it couldn't be much longer because Luke phoned Alan Ovens at 5.40,calmly enquiring as to Jodi's whereabouts.Quite amazing,ten minutes to sort everything out before leaving for the evening.

What about option 2? Well,much the same,although he may have had slightly longer to sort things out,although remember,he would have been sitting on the wall with blood stained clothing,very risky.

Option 3? 6.35-7.00,much the same,but remember it is claimed that Corinne had started burning the clothes by 6.30.

Option 4? Very,very unlikely that Luke did not return home to secure an alibi by this time,as pointed out Jodi could have been found by then and the police could have been present at his mums house on his return home from the Abbey.

So,as I said earlier on,every prosecution scenario has problems.

Just imagine for a moment what could have been said between Luke and his mother if he returned at 5.30. 

Corrine-'Oh hi Luke,far hiv you been? Luke-Well mam,I'm afraid I've jist killed Jodi,I've been plannin tae butcher her for a while noo' C-'Och ats terrible son,but I suppose these things happen.'  L-'aye mam,onyway,can ye wash ma clothes,they've got some bleed on em?'  C-'aye of coorse son,yell nae be needin tae tak the blame for her murder.In fact I will burn yer clothes jist tae mak sure,ok?  L-'aye great ma,n mine tae tell the police that I wiz at hame hayin ma supper at the time o' the murder ok?'   C-'aye of coorse laddie,now jist you awa oot in play we yir pals n'leave yir mither tae sort a'thing oot,ok?'  L -'jings aye ma,great,see ye later'  C-'see ya Luke,yer a braw wee laddie,am prood o'ye'.

Or what do you think was said between mother and son Steve? And at what time?
Surely you cant have an opinion of guilt or innocence until you have gone through a complete scenario taking every option into consideration?

[Steve_uk]

OK thanks Steve,but if I may say so,you are simply not looking deeply enough into the events/scenario. I will give you my thoughts.

What I have been trying to draw out of you is,when did Luke return home after the murder and give Corinne the bombshell news that he had killed Jodi and ask for her help? Now surely we can agree that it was at least sometime that evening,right? So just what are the options?
Option 1.Between 5.30-5.40 [Jodi was still alive at 5.15 as witnessed by Leonard Kelly,so had still to be mutilated.Hence the killer could not have left the scene till about 5.20 If it was Luke he would take about ten minutes to get home,hence 5.30 before he gets back home]

Option 2.Witnesses Fleming and Walsh actually see Luke at 5.50 on his way home,he is then seen near his house sitting on a wall around 6.05 then again between 6.20-30,so could have sneaked in at this time for fifteen or twenty minutes.

Option 3.Between 6.35 and 7.00 when he is waiting for David High.

Option 4.At 9.00 when he returns from the Abbey.

OK,what about option 1,? Well as we can see time is very limited,and we have to believe that Luke went in,told his mother the shattering news of what he had done,change his clothes,wash?? Arrange and agree on an alibi with his mother who must have instantly accepted what Luke had done and decided to cover for him.All this in ten minutes,and we know it couldn't be much longer because Luke phoned Alan Ovens at 5.40,calmly enquiring as to Jodi's whereabouts.Quite amazing,ten minutes to sort everything out before leaving for the evening.

What about option 2? Well,much the same,although he may have had slightly longer to sort thing out,although remember,he would have been sitting on the wall with blood stained clothing,very risky.

Option 3? 6.35-7.00,much the same,but remember it is claimed that Corinne had started burning the clothes by 6.30.

Option 4? Very,very unlikely that Luke did not return home to secure an alibi by this time,as pointed out Jodi could have been found by then and the police could have been present at his mums house on his return home from the Abbey.

So,as I said earlier on,every prosecution scenario has problems.

Just imagine for a moment what could have been said between Luke and his mother if he returned at 5.30. 

Corrine-'Oh hi Luke,far hiv you been? Luke-Well mam,I'm afraid I've jist killed Jodi,I've been plannin tae butcher her for a while noo' C-'Och ats terrible son,but I suppose these things happen.'  L-'aye mam,onyway,can ye wash ma clothes,they've got some bleed on em?'  C-'aye of coorse son,yell nae be needin tae tak the blame for her murder.In fact I will burn yer clothes jist tae mak sure,ok?  L-'aye great ma,n mine tae tell the police that I wiz at hame hayin ma supper at the time o' the merder ok?'   C-'aye of coorse laddie,now jist you awa oot in play we yir pals n'leave yir mither tae sort a'thing oot,ok?'  L -'jings aye ma,great,see ye later'  C-'see ya Luke,yer a braw wee laddie,am prood o'ye'.

Or what do you think was said between mother and son Steve? And at what time?
Surely you cant have an opinion of guilt or innocence until you have gone through a complete scenario taking every option into consideration?

Leonard Kelly heard the last sounds emanating from Jodi. I'd like to know if Luke was still wearing the green jacket when he met David Tulloch around 7pm.

[snow66!]

Leonard Kelly heard the last sounds emanating from Jodi. I'd like to know if Luke was still wearing the green jacket when he met David Tulloch around 7pm.

Are you saying that Jodi made her final sounds after being mutilated Steve? No matter,even if Luke got home by 5.25 it is still an extraordinary claim to suggest that he told his mother what had happened, washed ,changed ,gave his mother instructions to burn clothing,arrange an alibi[chapping tatties] then calmly make a call to Alan Ovens as he leaves the house for the evening.Amazing,not least of all the fact that his mother INSTANTLY decided to cover for Luke and was happy to send him on his way within minutes.
Surely in such circumstances,it would have taken a while for the shock to sink in,his mother may have contemplated  telling Luke to hand himself in? To accept the situation and plan a cover up in a matter of minutes is indeed amazing in my opinion.Think about it Steve.

[snow66!]

Leonard Kelly heard the last sounds emanating from Jodi. I'd like to know if Luke was still wearing the green jacket when he met David Tulloch around 7pm.

Cant remember what High and Tulloch said Luke was wearing Steve,but they claimed he looked cleaner than usual apparently.

[Steve_uk]

Are you saying that Jodi made her final sounds after being mutilated Steve? No matter,even if Luke got home by 5.25 it is still an extraordinary claim to suggest that he told his mother what had happened, washed ,changed ,gave his mother instructions to burn clothing,arrange an alibi[chapping tatties] then calmly make a call to Alan Ovens as he leaves the house for the evening.Amazing,not least of all the fact that his mother INSTANTLY decided to cover for Luke and was happy to send him on his way within minutes.
Surely in such circumstances,it would have taken a while for the shock to sink in,his mother may have contemplated  telling Luke to hand himself in? To accept the situation and plan a cover up in a matter of minutes is indeed amazing in my opinion.Think about it Steve.

I think the murder was executed promptly. As for Corinne, I think she was (allegedly) an accessory. She must have seen the accoutrements in the bedroom, including twenty bottles of stored urine.

[Steve_uk]

Cant remember what High and Tulloch said Luke was wearing Steve,but they claimed he looked cleaner than usual apparently.

This would reinforce the idea that he had cleaned himself up before meeting them.

[snow66!]

I think the murder was executed promptly. As for Corinne, I think she was (allegedly) an accessory. She must have seen the accoutrements in the bedroom, including twenty bottles of stored urine.

Are you saying that she anticipated that Luke may do something evil Steve?
Prepared you might say,and automatically reacted to cover for Luke?

Dr Lean says that Luke only started peeing in bottles after the murder,a PTSD sort of disorder.

[snow66!]

This would reinforce the idea that he had cleaned himself up before meeting them.

Well,if he is guilty Steve,of course he would have been cleaned up by this time,although it is worth remembering that his hair and body was dirty when he was stripped at the police station later on.

[Steve_uk]

Are you saying that she anticipated that Luke may do something evil Steve?
Prepared you might say,and automatically reacted to cover for Luke?

Dr Lean says that Luke only started peeing in bottles after the murder,a PTSD sort of disorder.

That's interesting snow66! though not normal behaviour surely by anyone's standards. As for Corinne, there's a snippet here as to how she was perceived by Jodi: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+JONES%3A+HER+SOULMATES+My+Luke+has+all+these+knives+in+his...-a0127512558

[snow66!]

That's interesting snow66! though not normal behaviour surely by anyone's standards. As for Corinne, there's a snippet here as to how she was perceived by Jodi: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+JONES%3A+HER+SOULMATES+My+Luke+has+all+these+knives+in+his...-a0127512558

An article by Jane Hamilton Steve,she gets a lot of criticism from the innocence side as you know.
Anyway,a more reliable source about the relationship between Luke and Jodi would be her diary,I dont recall any mention of an array of knives in it,else it would have been used as evidence,she simply spoke of her great love and fondness for Luke.

Anyway,we will look at Shane Mitchells role next.

[snow66!]

OK,we will look at the available evidence about Shane Mitchell then ask the same questions that we have discussed about Corrine.That is,if Luke is guilty,when did Shane find out and what was said?

So let us presume that Luke arrived home around 5.30 after killing Jodi,who was in the house?
As far as I can tell,Shane was leaving around this time for the evening,so had he left by the time Luke got back? If not and he found out that Luke had just killed Jodi,I dont think he would have gone out at all.
So,for the time being lets just say thet Shane was not present when Luke returned from the murder scene at 5.30,he had already left in the car.
Now,I am not very sure when Shane returned home that evening,but when he did surely Luke and his mum would have told him the situation and asked him to provide an alibi.Now at this stage,Shane had two choices,either agree to give Luke an alibi or to turn him in,one or the other,very simple.Yet Shane's account of things for the time of the murder got muddled by the time he was interviewed,why?

Well,we will try and answer that later,but for the moment we must assume that Shane agreed to give Luke an alibi,if not,Luke was wasting his time protesting his innocence when he was taken to the police station later on that night.No point in protesting his innocence if he hadn't sorted out an alibi with Shane as well as his mother. Pointless,right?

So,it is irrelevant what Shane was doing at the time of the murder,whether he was on the computer or whatever,he had a simple decision to make that evening,agree to give Luke an alibi or turn him in,simple as that.
YET,as the case progressed Shane gave a muddled account and said he wasn't sure if Luke was at home at the time of the murder or not,so we will ask again,why?

Well,I think this may point more to an innocent Luke.You see,if Luke was guilty,an alibi from his mother and Shane was easy,because he knew exactly when Jodi died and therefore the time he needed an alibi for,very simple and Corrine and Shane could simply cover for Luke or not,right?

But as I said,lets suppose Luke is innocent,in that case he didn't know when Jodi died and no discussion of an alibi would have taken place with his mother or Shane at all. And the likes of Shane would have been paying little attention to specific times that day,who does? Isn't it more realistic to believe that Shane simply wasn't sure where Luke was at the time of the murder and told the truth?

To put it simply,either Shane knew,just like his mother that Luke was guilty and had agreed to give him an alibi,or he simply didn't know if he was guilty or not and told the truth.What I mean is,if Shane knew that Luke was guilty,surely he would have said he saw him mashing tatties or,turned him in.The fact that he did neither must mean he did not know that Luke had killed Jodi.

Oh well,I am not doing a very good job at explaining things here,but hopefully you will get the gist generaly.

[Adam]

Amazing that people know so much about more than one case.

I'm still finding out about the Bamber case.

[snow66!]

Amazing that people know so much about more than one case.

I'm still finding out about the Bamber case.

There isn't really that much to look at in the Luke Mitchell case Adam,its pretty straight forward.

I haven't been investigating it for very long.Try it,you will easily handle both cases at the same time.

Wonder if you will go for innocence or guilt?

[snow66!]

Anyway,what I was trying to say is that Shane  Mitchells part in the procedings seems to be confined to viewing the computer in his bedroom,when in actual fact he faced the same moral dillema as his mother that evening,whether to cover for Luke or not.
If Luke was guilty that is.