Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.

[Adam]

The shots don't have to be contact shots Steve unless I am mistaken, but with the .22 rifle used they would need to be fairly close?

The other thing with head shots is that the person my be clinically dead but the heart can continue to beat for a while.

Disagree with that. It was a low powered rifle which Nevill would have instantly taken off Daniel, Nicholas or Sheila.

It would have to be contact shots in an area of high blood flow.

[Adam]

Yes I believe so Snow and although samples from Sheila and June were not available by comparing DNA from their mothers the blood was 3500 times more likely to be from June, so it's looks doubtful Sheila's blood was even in the silencer at all.

Wow that turns things 360 degrees.

[Adam]

The shots don't have to be contact shots Steve unless I am mistaken, but with the .22 rifle used they would need to be fairly close?

The other thing with head shots is that the person my be clinically dead but the heart can continue to beat for a while.

455.

Mr Hayward said that the conclusions of Dr Vanezis, the pathologist, and Mr Fletcher, the firearms expert, supported his view that the blood was from Sheila Caffell alone.

Because their findings suggested that only Sheila Caffell had been shot with the gun in contact with her skin or from "very close range".

He would have been very surprised to find blood within the moderator from a person who had not been shot with the end of the moderator in contact with that person or at least very close to it.

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As said Sheila was also shot in an area of high blood flow.

[Adam]

63.

Of the seven injuries suffered by June Bamber, five were shots from the gun held at least one foot away from the body.

The bullet wound between the eyes was fired from less than one foot away, and could have been with the gun in contact with the skin, although he viewed that as unlikely.

Mr Fletcher was unable to estimate the range of the shot which had caused the injury to the right side of Mrs Bamber's chest.

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So unlikely June received any contact shots. Certainly not in an area of high blood flow.

[Adam]

65.

As regards the twins, four of the five injuries suffered by Daniel were caused when the gun was held within one foot of his head, the fifth was from over two feet away.

The three wounds to Nicholas were contact or close proximity shots.

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So possible contact shots into Nicholas.  But not in an area of high blood flow.

[Adam]

64.

In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin.

The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

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So no contact shots into Nevill.

The skull & torso shots were not in areas of high blood flow.

The two jaw shots were when Nevill was in bed and starting to react to June's 5 shots. Bamber would not manage to get contact shots. 

[Adam]

62.

Mr Fletcher also gave evidence of the range at which the shots had been fired.

The lower (and not immediately fatal) of the injuries suffered by Sheila Caffell was caused when the muzzle of the gun was within three inches of the throat.

The upper injury was a contact shot.

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[Adam]

In conclusion on the 25 shots -:

It was impossible to produce back spatter from the rifle from 20 of the shots. Due to distance. 

The 3 contact/close proximity shots into Nicholas are ruled out. Due to the skull being an area of low blood flow.

Only Sheila received a contact shot in an area of high blood flow.

There is also a possibility the shot into Sheila from 'within 3 inches' away caused back spatter. As the shot was in an area of high blood flow

[Adam]

Bamber committed the massacre with silencer attached. It was a silent massacre attempt.

Shooting Sheila last.

He went downstairs with rifle/silencer to return silencer to gun cupboard prior to burning Nevill's back.

[killingeve]

Well if Sheila's blood got into the silencer from one or both neck shots due to back spatter then how can you say the shoot to June (the one between the ..) the head shots to the twins and Nevil not result in a mixture of blood getting into the silencer?

The following shows the victims' blood groupings along with that of the flake.  The best the defence could argue is that the flake represented a mixture of June and Nevill's blood groups which then matches Sheila's blood groups and the flake. But as Adam has pointed out this argument does not really get off the ground since they didn't sustain wounds which would result in 'drawback' or the blood entering the silencer in any other way.  The twins can be ruled out since the flake did not include their HP group. 

                                     ABO PGM             EAP          AK       HP
 
Nevill Bamber                 O     PGM1+         EAP BA     AK1     Hp2-1
June Bamber                  A     PGM1+         EAP BA     AK2-1   Hp2-1
Daniel Caffell                  O     PGM2+1+    EAP B       AK1      Hp2
Nicholas Caffell              O     PGM2+1+    EAP B       AK1      Hp2
Sheila Caffell                  A     PGM1+         EAP BA     AK1      Hp2-1

Blood Flake                    A                         EAP BA     AK1      Hp2-1

ABO = Blood Group System (Antigens)

PGM = Phosphoglucomutase (Enzyme)

EAP = Erythrocyte Acid Phosphatase (Enzyme)

AK = Adenylate Kinase (Enzyme)

HP = Haptoglobin (Protein)

[killingeve]

Yes I believe so Snow and although samples from Sheila and June were not available by comparing DNA from their mothers the blood was 3500 times more likely to be from June, so it's looks doubtful Sheila's blood was even in the silencer at all.

The CoA and experts for boths sides pretty much agreed the LCN DNA results were meaningless since LCN DNA is unable to identify the biological source and works off samples as small as a millionth the size of a grain of salt.  As DNA testing wasn't in use at the time the Bamber exhibits were examined no precautions were taken to prevent contamination eg jurors handled blood stained items such as June's nightdress alongside the silencer. 

[killingeve]

From Wilkes book--;In fact both John Hayward and the Judge admitted that the blood could have been a mixture of Nevill and June Bambers blood,but that this was a remote possibility,' They claim that only DNA testing could prove the point beyond any doubt,I n the absence of DNA testing,they declared in a report compiled for the Home Office in 1990, 'it would be impossible to differentiate between one person's blood and another,--

Also the blood should have been tested in solution to be sure it was from only one person,Hayward later admitted that he did not think this had been done,and that it was not routine procedure,

Later,Hayward also did tests to see if the silencer heated up after being firsd numerous times to dry out blood inside it.The silencer did not heat up and the blood remained liquid,so could easily mix with further blood entering into it.

And isn't it strange that Bamber has always pushed to have exhibits re-examined if he is guilty? Why try to DNA test the silencer in 2002 if he knew it was Sheilas blood inside it? He would have done everything he could to prevent the test surely,else it would have ended his charade.

Indeed it was the police who illegally destroyed evidence which could have helped clear things up.And didn;t the testing of the silencer find an unknown males DNA?

No,I dont think its just quite as cut and dried as Cutie and Adam believe.

I haven't seen any forensic reports on this test?  The silencer and rifle were not destroyed and afaik are still available.

The LCN DNA testing of the silencer did produce a result for an unidentified male but this is hardly suprising given the way LCN DNA works (see post above) and the fact procedures were not in place to protect against contamination at the time since it was before DNA testing was used.  Even if procedures were in place to protect against contamination once it entered custody you would need to eliminate all those who ever handled the materials in the manufacturing of the silencer, wholesalers, retailers and anyone else who came into near contact with it.

I think its the likes of yourself snowie and Rob who have not done your homework properly and fail to understand how compelling the blood evidence is against Bamber.  Perhaps when you do you will covert to guiltism 

[killingeve]

Since CC believes the silencer was a fabrication. Maybe she can explain her own theory on how that happened?

Since you are convinced AE wrung out Sheila's soaking in a bucket menstrual stained knickers to contaminate the silencer why would you care what I think whether I believe it was a fabrication or not?  One has to come to the inevitable in the end!

[killingeve]

He misinterpreted John Hayward's remarks on being able to assess the blood on appearance alone.

Yes but realistically the defence argument about the mixed blood (Nevill and June) didn't really hold water since none of their injuries supported a mechanism whereby blood would enter the silencer.  The prosecution argument about Sheila and drawback was far more compelling hence the jury's verdict.

[Adam]

I have confirmed the blood inside the silencer could only be Sheila's.

Twenty of the 25 shots were too far away for back spatter. 

The contact/close proximity shots to Nicholas were in an area of low blood flow.

Sheila received a contact and a 'within 3 inches' shot. In an area of high blood flow.