Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.

[killingeve]

This is all argued in Wilkes book Cutie,and Adam knows this.The Judge took liberties detailing the blood evidence to the jury.A mixture of the other victims blood is well within the realms of possibility.

More importantly it was all argued at court long before Wilkes' book.  In what way did the judge take liberties detailing the blood evidence to the jury?  The "intimate" mix theory was put before the court but rejected. 

Bamber's 1989 appeal was based on the judge's summing up and got nowhere.

[snow66!]

More importantly it was all argued at court long before Wilkes' book.  In what way did the judge take liberties detailing the blood evidence to the jury?  The "intimate" mix theory was put before the court but rejected. 

Bamber's 1989 appeal was based on the judge's summing up and got nowhere.

Will give you a reply shortly Cutie.

[Steve_uk]

More importantly it was all argued at court long before Wilkes' book.  In what way did the judge take liberties detailing the blood evidence to the jury?  The "intimate" mix theory was put before the court but rejected. 

Bamber's 1989 appeal was based on the judge's summing up and got nowhere.

He misinterpreted John Hayward's remarks on being able to assess the blood on appearance alone.

[snow66!]

He misinterpreted John Hayward's remarks on being able to assess the blood on appearance alone.

Thank you Steve,that is part of it.

[Rob_]

Courts are concerned with plausibility not fanciful notions.  The court heard the defence arguments about the blood flake representing an "intimate" mix of June and Nevill's blood but rejected this on the basis that Sheila's as a stand alone from 'drawback' was more compelling.  How would anyone elses blood realistically enter inside the silencer?  If you're able to respond please by very specific.

Well if Sheila's blood got into the silencer from one or both neck shots due to back spatter then how can you say the shoot to June (the one between the ..) the head shots to the twins and Nevil not result in a mixture of blood getting into the silencer?

[Steve_uk]

Well if Sheila's blood got into the silencer from one or both neck shots due to back spatter then how can you say the shoot to June (the one between the ..) the head shots to the twins and Nevil not result in a mixture of blood getting into the silencer?

One could say that none of Nevill or June's wounds were contact shots. It's possible that Daniel's heart stopped after the first bullet, meaning there would be no drawback from the four shots in close proximity to the skull. https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4405.0.html

[snow66!]

From Wilkes book--;In fact both John Hayward and the Judge admitted that the blood could have been a mixture of Nevill and June Bambers blood,but that this was a remote possibility,' They claim that only DNA testing could prove the point beyond any doubt,I n the absence of DNA testing,they declared in a report compiled for the Home Office in 1990, 'it would be impossible to differentiate between one person's blood and another,--

Also the blood should have been tested in solution to be sure it was from only one person,Hayward later admitted that he did not think this had been done,and that it was not routine procedure,

Later,Hayward also did tests to see if the silencer heated up after being firsd numerous times to dry out blood inside it.The silencer did not heat up and the blood remained liquid,so could easily mix with further blood entering into it.

And isn't it strange that Bamber has always pushed to have exhibits re-examined if he is guilty? Why try to DNA test the silencer in 2002 if he knew it was Sheilas blood inside it? He would have done everything he could to prevent the test surely,else it would have ended his charade.

Indeed it was the police who illegally destroyed evidence which could have helped clear things up.And didn;t the testing of the silencer find an unknown males DNA?

No,I dont think its just quite as cut and dried as Cutie and Adam believe.

[Rob_]

One could say that none of Nevill or June's wounds were contact shots. It's possible that Daniel's heart stopped after the first bullet, meaning there would be no drawback from the four shots in close proximity to the skull. https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4405.0.html

The shots don't have to be contact shots Steve unless I am mistaken, but with the .22 rifle used they would need to be fairly close?

The other thing with head shots is that the person my be clinically dead but the heart can continue to beat for a while.

[Rob_]

From Wilkes book--;In fact both John Hayward and the Judge admitted that the blood could have been a mixture of Nevill and June Bambers blood,but that this was a remote possibility,' They claim that only DNA testing could prove the point beyond any doubt,I n the absence of DNA testing,they declared in a report compiled for the Home Office in 1990, 'it would be impossible to differentiate between one person's blood and another,--

Also the blood should have been tested in solution to be sure it was from only one person,Hayward later admitted that he did not think this had been done,and that it was not routine procedure,

Later,Hayward also did tests to see if the silencer heated up after being firsd numerous times to dry out blood inside it.The silencer did not heat up and the blood remained liquid,so could easily mix with further blood entering into it.

And isn't it strange that Bamber has always pushed to have exhibits re-examined if he is guilty? Why try to DNA test the silencer in 2002 if he knew it was Sheilas blood inside it? He would have done everything he could to prevent the test surely,else it would have ended his charade.

Indeed it was the police who illegally destroyed evidence which could have helped clear things up.And didn;t the testing of the silencer find an unknown males DNA?

No,I dont think its just quite as cut and dried as Cutie and Adam believe.

Yes I believe so Snow and although samples from Sheila and June were not available by comparing DNA from their mothers the blood was 3500 times more likely to be from June, so it's looks doubtful Sheila's blood was even in the silencer at all.

[snow66!]

Yes I believe so Snow and although samples from Sheila and June were not available by comparing DNA from their mothers the blood was 3500 times more likely to be from June, so it's looks doubtful Sheila's blood was even in the silencer at all.

Thanks Rob,I did not know that.Very interesting.

[Steve_uk]

Yes I believe so Snow and although samples from Sheila and June were not available by comparing DNA from their mothers the blood was 3500 times more likely to be from June, so it's looks doubtful Sheila's blood was even in the silencer at all.

Sheila couldn't be excluded. https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5462312.north-essex-new-dna-result-on-gun-silencer/

[snow66!]

Sheila couldn't be excluded. https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5462312.north-essex-new-dna-result-on-gun-silencer/

No Steve,but it kind of turns things around to Bambers favour dosen;t it?

[David1819]

No,I dont think its just quite as cut and dried as Cutie and Adam believe.

Since CC believes the silencer was a fabrication. Maybe she can explain her own theory on how that happened?

[David1819]

Yes I believe so Snow and although samples from Sheila and June were not available by comparing DNA from their mothers the blood was 3500 times more likely to be from June, so it's looks doubtful Sheila's blood was even in the silencer at all.

June's DNA likely got in the silencer through unintentional contamination.

[Adam]

Well if Sheila's blood got into the silencer from one or both neck shots due to back spatter then how can you say the shoot to June (the one between the ..) the head shots to the twins and Nevil not result in a mixture of blood getting into the silencer?

I agree the silencer was used. But why didn't Sheila just leave it beside her?

Sheila's shots are most likely to cause back spatter - contact shots in an area of high blood flow.

Doubtful June, Nevill, Daniel or Nicholas received contact shots. Only June received a shot in a similar location to Sheila.