Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.

[killingeve]

We are discussing theoretically whether it was possible the relatives discovered Sheila's blood type.

Under what circumstances would they and if they possessed such knowledge how would they then set about contaminating the silencer?

[killingeve]

Why would anyone need to know the actual grouping names?

All you need to know is which group you are such as A+, A- etc.

The flake found within the silencer matched 4 of Sheila's blood groups which wasn't just limited to the ABO grouping system.  It was as follows:

A, EAP BA, AK1, HP2-1

A = ABO grouping system
EAP BA = Erthrocyte Acid Phosphatase
AK = Adenylate Kinase
HP = Haptoglobin

Maybe you now appreciate how compelling the blood evidence is against Bamber?

[killingeve]

Why is the blood evidence compelling Cc? I have posted a extract of one of my old posts:

Extract of David Boutflour’s statement 12.9.85

“Also in the box was a sound moderator for a .22 rifle. I picked up the sound moderator and saw what I believe to be blood on it. Also there was red paint or something similar on it as well. There was one quite deep scratch which was bright and appeared to be new. I took these items together with the other firearms to my sister’s home.

I latter informed the Police of the finding of the telescopic sight and the sound moderator.”

Court Testimony

MR. RIVLIN: When you took the box which contained the silencer out of the gun cupboard, whichever that box may have been, is it right you actually looked at the silencer then and there?  A. I looked at the silencer then and there, but did not come to any conclusion until a latter date, because I looked at the silencer at a latter date at my sister’s home.

Q. Where did you look at it when you were in White House Farm? In which room where you when you looked at it?   A. I looked at it in the confines of the office in the den.

Q. Is this right: Did you see anything of significance at the time in the den on the silencer?   A. I cannot remember whether I noticed the fact it had the red paint on it and the undermentioned spot of blood at the time of inspecting it in the office, or on further investigation at my sister’s house. The notability of the damage to the silencer, i.e. the protective coating to the silencer.

Q. So you have no memory of noticing anything significant on the silencer at White House Farm?   A. I have the memory of noticing the damage to the silencer, but not the spot of blood.

Q. Not blood and not red paint?   A. I cannot recollect so far back now, sorry.

Then Latter:
Q. You rang to tell them about the silencer?  A. I did not ring them somebody did.

Nothing compelling as far as I can see?

What has any of the above got to do with the fact that a flake of blood was found within the silencer matching 4 of Sheila's blood groups which was capable of distingusing her blood groups from that of the other victims?

[killingeve]

Exactly Rob,how can you have faith in evidence found days or maybe weeks after the crime scene was vacated by the police.Its hardly normal procedure by any means.

It was pored over at trial and heard by judge and jury.

[lookout]

A dried flake of blood wouldn't have given a true reading as the fact that it had dried had been open to all kinds of contaminants in the air. How long had that flake been there ?

[Adam]

What has any of the above got to do with the fact that a flake of blood was found within the silencer matching 4 of Sheila's blood groups which was capable of distingusing her blood groups from that of the other victims?

I believe Rob is saying in his WS, DB says he contacted SJ regarding the silencer.

Over a year later during his court testimony DB is saying 'somebody' did.

To Rob that points to Bamber's innocence.

It was probably AE, as she was in contact with Stan Jones.

[Rob_]

Exactly Rob,how can you have faith in evidence found days or maybe weeks after the crime scene was vacated by the police.Its hardly normal procedure by any means.

It's not just how they were found Snow it's all the WS's as well, DB contradicts himself for example.

If I had found the silencer with blood, paint and hair on it, I would have carefully wrapped it up not tried to unscrew it! and took it that very minute straight to the police.

I would not need to be ringing around for advice of what to do!

[Rob_]

I believe Rob is saying in his WS, DB says he contacted SJ regarding the silencer.

Over a year later during his court testimony DB is saying 'somebody' did.

To Rob that points to Bamber's innocence.

It was probably AE, as she was in contact with Stan Jones.

Thanks Adam yes DB contradicts himself plus lots of other issues.

This does not prove innocence, but it greatly undermines the blood evidence.

There were two silencers I think this can almost be proved? differing measurements quoted to 0.1 of a mm cannot be claimed as mistakes.

[Adam]

Thanks Adam yes DB contradicts himself plus lots of other issues.

This does not prove innocence, but it greatly undermines the blood evidence.

There were two silencers I think this can almost be proved? differing measurements quoted to 0.1 of a mm cannot be claimed as mistakes.

I disagree but appreciate you believe there was an industrial frame.

[Adam]

Thanks Adam yes DB contradicts himself plus lots of other issues.

This does not prove innocence, but it greatly undermines the blood evidence.

There were two silencers I think this can almost be proved? differing measurements quoted to 0.1 of a mm cannot be claimed as mistakes.

How were 2 silencers used to frame Bamber?

[Adam]

It's not just how they were found Snow it's all the WS's as well, DB contradicts himself for example.

If I had found the silencer with blood, paint and hair on it, I would have carefully wrapped it up not tried to unscrew it! and took it that very minute straight to the police.

I would not need to be ringing around for advice of what to do!

What you believe you would/wouldn't have done 37 years later is neither here or there.

[Adam]

Me & Rob agree Sheila would not return the silencer to the gun cupboard.

Rob believes Bamber would be 'home free' if he left the silencer next to Sheila. Although it would then be a crime scene exhibit & the blood inside tested.

We both agree if the relatives believed neither Sheila or Bamber would have put the silencer away, the relatives would not attempt a frame of one piece of evidence.

[lookout]

It's not just how they were found Snow it's all the WS's as well, DB contradicts himself for example.

If I had found the silencer with blood, paint and hair on it, I would have carefully wrapped it up not tried to unscrew it! and took it that very minute straight to the police.

I would not need to be ringing around for advice of what to do!

To me,it would have proved their eagerness at nailing JB and I'd have smelled a rat.

[killingeve]

A dried flake of blood wouldn't have given a true reading as the fact that it had dried had been open to all kinds of contaminants in the air. How long had that flake been there ?

According to an expert in blood serology the blood needs to have dried to enable forensic collection of the sample and analysis. And the groupings are all within the timescales before they degrade.  The lab opened up the silencer on 12th Sept and identified the flake.

[killingeve]

I believe Rob is saying in his WS, DB says he contacted SJ regarding the silencer.

Over a year later during his court testimony DB is saying 'somebody' did.

To Rob that points to Bamber's innocence.

It was probably AE, as she was in contact with Stan Jones.

Ok, thanks for the translation but no idea how this undermines the blood evidence and/or supports Bamber.