Burning down of the caravan park shop.

[Adam]

Not at all. Their posts are very enjoyable.

Do you believe Bamber could have burnt down the caravan park shop?

[snow66!]

Jane, you mention the two shots.. sorry to press but..  which shot caused these marks?

Sorry for butting in Roch,but if the marks were caused by the second shot,the blood must have somehow spurted out of her neck or her mouth and landed on her wrist.Everyone agrees that Sheila was lying on her back immediately after the second shot,so the blood could not have RUN to her wrist.Not from the second shot.

[ILB]

Certainly not while in Amsterdam, St Tropez, London, Pevensey, Eastbourne & Burnham after the massacre.

He knew he wouldn't get away with it if gulity.Even if innocent the initial arrests and being charged and remanded on bail on the burglary charge shook him to the core

Once the heat was on by EP he knew it would be only a matter of time before he'd be doing porridge.

The st Tropez trip is a great testament to that. It was two weeks break respite period before the shit storm came crashing down.

[Cambridgecutie]

Hi Killing eve,nice day.Just one question,why did the killer shoot Sheila and immediately pull her body flat? As usual,I have missed the reason for doing this.

Only the killer knows the answer to that question.

But not knowing the answer to that question doesn't make the evidence any less strong.  It is conclusive legal proof (as conclusive as you can get outside of a courtroom) that Sheila was murdered by someone. Could have been a burglar, could have been an assassin, could have been Jeremy Bamber.

I would assume that Sheila's body may have looked a bit contorted in her original position after death, and the murderer, when setting up the body to look like suicide, may have felt that Sheila in a horizontal position, with the gun on her, looked more convincing.

But that is something only the killer knows.

[Adam]

He knew he wouldn't get away with it if gulity.Even if innocent the initial arrests and being charged and remanded on bail on the burglary charge shook him to the core

Once the heat was on by EP he knew it would be only a matter of time before he'd be doing porridge.

The st Tropez trip is a great testament to that. It was two weeks break respite period before the shit storm came crashing down.

Guess he shouldn't have done it then.

Seriously he was very confident afterwards - 'watertight', 'open & shut case'.

[Roch]

Sorry for butting in Roch,but if the marks were caused by the second shot,the blood must have somehow spurted out of her neck or her mouth and landed on her wrist.Everyone agrees that Sheila was lying on her back immediately after the second shot,so the blood could not have RUN to her wrist.Not from the second shot.

The angle of shots may be relevant in trying to work things out Snow?..

[Jane]

Do you believe Bamber could have burnt down the caravan park shop?

Certainly he could have. Did he? Mmm?

[ILB]

Guess he shouldn't have done it then.

Seriously he was very confident afterwards - 'watertight', 'open & shut case'.

I think if gulity he was up to the point of being arrested. First off before being bailed

After that I think it dawned on him. I think. He knew the heat was on.

Think if gulity it may have dawned on him he dropped a bollock in enlightening Julie. From his own infidelities and boredom of Julie he would know she would go to the police.this relationship had been dying a slow death for a while. Friends remarked they were shocked they stayed together so long. Bamber was bored with her

From a gulity Bamber perspective there's nothing else apart from eventual arrest you can say. It is madness if gulity he thought he would get away with it

[Jane]

I think if gulity he was up to the point of being arrested. First off before being bailed

After that I think it dawned on him. I think. He knew the heat was on.

Think if gulity it may have dawned on him he dropped a bollock in enlightening Julie. From his own infidelities and boredom of Julie he would know she would go to the police.

From a gulity Bamber perspective there's nothing else apart from eventual arrest you can say. It is madness if gulity if he thought he would get away with it

From the moment it dawned on him, I think he's have believed he could bluff and blag his way out, ie "That is for you to establish"!

[ILB]

From the moment it dawned on him, I think he's have believed he could bluff and blag his way out, ie "That is for you to establish"!

I'm aware of that, but that was bluff and bluster. At that point you mention he was under cross examination on trial for five murders. The very real threat of a permanent prison cell was a very much real probability.

[Cambridgecutie]

Jane, you mention the two shots.. sorry to press but..  which shot caused these marks?

Those marks were probably made when Sheila lifted her hand to her throat, smudged the blood around the wound, and put her arm back down again.

So, spots of blood land on her arm, after being shot once, with her arm being fairly level with the floor, so gravity doesn't make the blood drip down.  Then, in shock after being shot first time, she moves her hand to the wound.  Gravity then makes the blood move, then her arm moves back down.  The blood stops moving, congeals a bit, then she gets shot a second time and dies.

That is how I understand those streaks of blood were produced in the way that they were.

You have to remember that there were 10 people that observed the post mortem, and the bodies were washed.  So any physical wounds would have been noticed and noted.

4 of the 10 people in the post mortem were police officers who fully expected the pathologists to concur that Sheila had murdered everyone and then shot herself.  So anything that jollied that along would be gratefully accepted.

Off the top of my head, there was Vanezis, an assistant, 2 students, 4 police, then two others who I can't remember.

The pathologists were very aware when they examined the bodies, what the police wanted to hear.  And all they were looking for at that time, was confirmation that Sheila committed the crime, then killed herself.

[Jane]

I'm aware of that, but that was bluff and bluster. At that point you mention he was under cross examination on trial for five murders. The very real threat of a permanent prison cell was a very much real probability.

Yes, and at that point he was running out of options.

[ILB]

When I first met Jeremy Bamber in 1993. All he ever talked about was the case. He spent every waking moment on it. Believe at that time it was more or less dead. At that time i didn't know much how about his case just what he himself had told me. I had heard of it before but I don't think back then it was that high profile. This was pre internet and thus the case did not have the higher profile platform that it does today.

I have met many many prisoners over my time. Many have protested innocence. Some are.

The test I used in prison to test innocence is to look at someones energy when claiming they are a miscarriage of justice. Many a truly gulity party will protest their innocence and then stop trying to do anything else. It is a process. They become tired with lying and the trying to convince people. It becomes tedious.

Bamber never spoke about much other than gym and the case. He has been fighting his conviction for 37 years. If he is a liar he is a good actor and has an unreltenting energy level. He has never confessed to anyone. He has never faltered. He is either innocent, hates prison so much he wants out (from what I saw of him he took to prison like duck out of a water) or he is bored, I want to comment on the latter.

There has been much debate about Bamber appealing because he is bored. It will not occupy your for ,37 years. If you are gulity you will starve it off after repeated knockbacks. Many people just rest it after a while because fighting the system takes a lot of effort and energy. He has never wavered in 37 years.

I have never come across another prisoner like him

[Jane]

When I first met Jeremy Bamber in 1993. All he ever talked about was the case. He spent every waking moment on it. Believe at that time it was more or less dead. At that time i didn't know much how about his case just what he himself had told me. I had heard of it before but I don't think back then it was that high profile. This was pre internet and thus the case did not have the higher profile platform that it does today.

I have met many many prisoners over my time. Many have protested innocence. Some are.

The test I used in prison to test innocence is to look at someones energy when claiming they are a miscarriage of justice. Many a truly gulity party will protest their innocence and then stop trying to do anything else. It is a process. They become tired with lying and the trying to convince people. It becomes tedious.

Bamber never spoke about much other than gym and the case. He has been fighting his conviction for 37 years. If he is a liar he is a good actor and has an unreltenting energy level. He has never confessed to anyone. He has never faltered. He is either innocent, hates prison so much he wants out (from what I saw of him he took to prison like duck out of a water) or he is bored, I want to comment on the latter.

There has been much debate about Bamber appealing because he is bored. It will not occupy your for ,37 years. If you are gulity you will starve it off after repeated knockbacks. Many people just rest it after a while because fighting the system takes a lot of effort and energy. He has never wavered in 37 years.

I have never come across another prisoner like him

Thank you for that fascinating and insightful post.

Re that test you used. Do you know of any other lifer who has been given the same amount of attention, and the same opportunity to self publicize as JB? I feel certain it would make him feel enormously powerful -even innocent?!!!- to have all these fairly high profile people dancing attendance on him and appearing to believe him............and that's without the racy love interests he's alleged to have indulged in!!!

[snow66!]

Hello everyone.Let us look at Mr Ismails evidence that Killingeve claims is proof that Sheila was murdered.To be quite honest,I dont understand it that well,the dress rucked up in different positions and so on.Infact it's no wonder the experts didn't bother to challenge it,they probably didn't know what the hell Ismail was talking about no more than I do.So,what is Ismail claiming? Part of his evidence is that Sheilas dress is rucked up differently front and back,and that this is proof her body was pulled down.He says he can tell this from the photos of Sheila,really? Ismail then says that Sheila received the second shot while she was lying with the back of her head against the bedside cabinet,having slipped down from a sitting position after the first shot.Fair enough,this matches the bullet trajectories.But heres the thing,for me,looking at the photos of Sheila,it looks as if her head has simply fallen to the side after the second shot.Ismail states that as soon as Sheila was shot a second time,JB must have thrown the rifle to one side and immediately pulled Sheila down flat.The reason for and importance of doing so is beyond my understanding.No doubt I will be enlightened by Killingeve.Now Ismail said that Sheila had to be pulled flat by someone because her head did not have enough weight to push her body down flat after the second shot.But as I have said,it looks to me as if Sheilas head has simply fallen to the side.Take another look at the photos of Sheila,her head is still up past the front of the cabinet,she hasnt been pulled at all.If you were to lift her head and place it against the front of the cabinet,that would be the position she was in when she received the second shot.Look at her left shoulder,its only a few inches away from the front of the cabinet,it couldn't be much nearer.Sheila hasn't been pulled AT ALL!,her hesd simply fell to the side after the second shot,and her dress was simply rucked up when she slipped down from the sitting position after the first shot.So,for me,Ismails so called evidence that Sheila was murdered is poop as far as I can see,no conclusive evidence at all.Bye for now.