Burning down of the caravan park shop.

[lookout]

Sheila had unwittingly fired the second shot when the rifle was in the position it was, slightly removed from the first shot. Only a touch would have been needed for it to have re-fired because of the pressure which had remained.
A gas operated rifle fires twice !

[snow66!]

Very probable Bamber pulled Sheila's legs.

Either after the first shot. To position Sheila differently for the second shot.

Or after the second shot as part of his staging.

He was not expecting to be a suspect, let alone an expert 17 years later confirming Sheila was pulled after she had been shot.

Hi Adam,you desregard Ismails evidence if you say that Sheila was pulled after the second shot.

[snow66!]

Sorry,the first shot.

[snow66!]

Yes, she was certainly lying flat throughout as the blood flows show.

As for whether she was moved at all..

You have members of the firearms team stating "Photo of Sheila not in same position as when I saw it" "Head (1) Too close to bedside table. (2) Not sure about about  angle of head but something not right"

Hi Dave,well,if Sheilas body was moved at all by the police,even inadvertently,then Ismails evidence holds even less weight,dosen't it?

[Jane]

JB must be severely retarded to have given two shots to the neck when he should have known that one would have sufficed ?  He would have known of the jugular vein ! At close quarters ?

Yet psychological tests have proved that he had/has no such disability ?

Because that first shot had hit a blunt object ( a bone , hence the shattered bullet internally ) would there have been a recoil straight after because of this failure in hitting its target ?
Gas pressure after the first bullet would have allowed the bolt to remain open, enabling a second shot before re-loading. The idea being, of a semi-automatic, to allow the pressure to drop after firing before re-loading.

Lookout, I hear what you say, but let's leave JB out of it for a moment. Any -EVERY- person will agree that two shots to another person's neck isn't immediately going to look like suicide. However, what do they do if the first shot -and leave aside what they SHOULD have done/known, errors/accidents occur to the best of them/us- didn't do it. What do the do next? They don't have too many options, do they, remembering that they want this to look like a suicide. They could walk away, hoping the victim would bleed to death, but given that their judgement has failed once, they risk their victim's surviving to tell the tale. They could could do a "blunt force trauma" but that would give the game away, wouldn't it? Really, all that's left is to fire another shot. Perhaps it's at that point that they make the decision to place the weapon across the victim to enhance the idea of suicide?

[lookout]

Lookout, I hear what you say, but let's leave JB out of it for a moment. Any -EVERY- person will agree that two shots to another person's neck isn't immediately going to look like suicide. However, what do they do if the first shot -and leave aside what they SHOULD have done/known, errors/accidents occur to the best of them/us- didn't do it. What do the do next? They don't have too many options, do they, remembering that they want this to look like a suicide. They could walk away, hoping the victim would bleed to death, but given that their judgement has failed once, they risk their victim's surviving to tell the tale. They could could do a "blunt force trauma" but that would give the game away, wouldn't it? Really, all that's left is to fire another shot. Perhaps it's at that point that they make the decision to place the weapon across the victim to enhance the idea of suicide?

I get what you're saying Jane and have mulled over the two shots every which way, but being, to my mind, that no other persons were involved, and because Sheila had no knowlege of the inner workings of a rifle,she herself had failed in her lack of knowlege that pressure remains in a rifle after each shot and a wait for that pressure to disperse would be the norm before another bullet is ejected.

[snow66!]

The angle of shots may be relevant in trying to work things out Snow?..

Hi Roch,all I can say,is that the angles of the two shots tally with Sheila firing them.Both shots are inflicted from the right hand side and at almost the same angle,so dosen't this point to Sheila firing the first shot then slipping down still holding the rifle in the same position.The angle the second bullet enters her head changes once she has slipped down,but it still enters from the right hand side.This means that Sheilas hand never left the trigger between the shots,making it more unlikely she put her hand up to her throat.If JB shot Sheila once,then went back and shot her a second time later on,it is strange [coincidental?] how he came to shoot her AGAIN from the right hand side,at almost the SAME angle as the first shot,even after Sheila had slipped down to a different position.Isnt it more likely that Sheila shot herself,then slipped down still holding the rifle at the same angle,before pulling the trigger a second time?Makes sense to me.

[Cambridgecutie]

Hi Dave,well,if Sheilas body was moved at all by the police,even inadvertently,then Ismails evidence holds even less weight,dosen't it?

Ismails evidence is the legally accepted truth, and has gone unopposed for the last 20 years.

It's quite possible that Jeremy Bamber has hired his own expert to have a look at the evidence, and the expert agreed with Ismail.  That would explain the deafening silence on the matter.

The police have openly and publicly documented that they moved the body for a number of reasons.  This was actually discussed at the trial.

For example, the photo of the gun against the window, taken from the landing was a photo that Bamber and his supporters  said went undisclosed for years.  But the very same photo was discussed at length at trial in 1986. 

The police have always been open about moving the body, which was discussed at trial.

It doesn't help Jeremy Bamber's cause that he keeps lying about the evidence, and it doesn't help his cause that his supporters maintain the lie.

If you take the call log that Jeremy Bamber falsely says proves that Nevill Bamber phoned HQIR (999) that night, the document from which Bamber has fabricated that story was supposed to have been undisclosed at trial.  And it was supposed to have been hidden by the police for years.

But one of the photocopies that has been publicly published, actually has a tag attached to it that confirms that is was in fact an exhibit at the 1986 court case at Chelmsford crown court.

And, on top of that, the ten minute time discrepancy was also discussed at trial, so both call logs would have been official exhibits, available to both defence and prosecution.

This isn't evidence of lying by Jeremy Bamber, it is proof of lying by Jeremy Bamber.

And these are really clumsy lies that are easy to expose.

And while I'm here...another lie that springs to mind is that Robert Boutflour's blood group was not disclosed to the defence at the time.  And yet there he is, in court, being cross-examined, being accused of accidentally dripping his own blood into the silencer.

Why does Jeremy Bamber lie so much.  He is addicted to lying.  Why not just tell the truth.  Oh yes, silly me.

[lookout]

So you know JB and the case well then,do you killingeve ? Not just through some drama that was on TV ??

[Roch]

Hi Roch,all I can say,is that the angles of the two shots tally with Sheila firing them.Both shots are inflicted from the right hand side and at almost the same angle,so dosen't this point to Sheila firing the first shot then slipping down still holding the rifle in the same position.The angle the second bullet enters her head changes once she has slipped down,but it still enters from the right hand side.This means that Sheilas hand never left the trigger between the shots,making it more unlikely she put her hand up to her throat.If JB shot Sheila once,then went back and shot her a second time later on,it is strange [coincidental?] how he came to shoot her AGAIN from the right hand side,at almost the SAME angle as the first shot,even after Sheila had slipped down to a different position.Isnt it more likely that Sheila shot herself,then slipped down still holding the rifle at the same angle,before pulling the trigger a second time?Makes sense to me.

Interesting proposition Snow. So she held the rifle in the same manner twice, but what actually changed in between shots, was her own positioning, hence the different shot angles.

I am mainly interested in how either of those shots could have deposited blood on the underside of her right wrist.

[snow66!]

Interesting proposition Snow. So she held the rifle in the same manner twice, but what actually changed in between shots, was her own positioning, hence the different shot angles.

I am mainly interested in how either of those shots could have deposited blood on the underside of her right wrist.

Well,the blood could only have got to her wrist by running down her arm Roch,else we have to believe that blood spurted out of one of the wounds and landed on her wrist and nowhere else.Both of these ways seem very unlikely,hence I agree the blood was on Sheilas wrist/arm before she shot herself.

[David1819]

Hi Dave,well,if Sheilas body was moved at all by the police,even inadvertently,then Ismails evidence holds even less weight,dosen't it?

Correct.

[snow66!]

So you know JB and the case well then,do you killingeve ? Not just through some drama that was on TV ??

Yes,Killingeve's knowledge of the case is very impressive Lookout,considering they have only studdied the case for about two and a half years like myself.mmm! as Jane would say.

[lookout]

Yes,Killingeve's knowledge of the case is very impressive Lookout,considering they have only studdied the case for about two and a half years like myself.mmm! as Jane would say.

You get to know these things from an early stage snow, and I'm no fool I'm afraid.

[lookout]

I don't know about JB allegedly saying he " should have been an actor ".
 I should have been a detective,