Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.

[lookout]

She'd received 2 lower dose injections and her blood/urine was still showing moderate levels.

Was that two months apart Jane ?

[Jane]

Was that two months apart Jane ?

Lookout, from memory -and I got it from Dr Angegulu(?)'s WS- she had doses delivered in April, May, June and July. Again, from memory, 2 were of the lower dose. She seems not to have reported any more problems once the dose had been lowered.

[lookout]

Lookout, from memory -and I got it from Dr Angegulu(?)'s WS- she had doses delivered in April, May, June and July. Again, from memory, 2 were of the lower dose. She seems not to have reported any more problems once the dose had been lowered.

Thanks for that Jane as I wasn't sure when the injection itself had begun/began.

[lookout]

Chances were that Sheila hadn't been keen on the relaxing effect the stronger dose had as being an anxious person to start with it's difficult to tone down from the mode of anxiety----it would have been alien to her. An anxious person likes to think they're still in control of themselves but if that's taken away, they feel at a loss of their senses etc. Sheila was no fool but went about things in the wrong way------as did the medics. Alas, she'd have been better off with the good old NHS.

[Jane]

Chances were that Sheila hadn't been keen on the relaxing effect the stronger dose had as being an anxious person to start with it's difficult to tone down from the mode of anxiety----it would have been alien to her. An anxious person likes to think they're still in control of themselves but if that's taken away, they feel at a loss of their senses etc. Sheila was no fool but went about things in the wrong way------as did the medics. Alas, she'd have been better off with the good old NHS.

It was motor functions she was having problems with and complained about. Such seems to be a problem with high doses of antipsychotics. There was a programme about it. The filmed at the Maudsley and the patients -who I believe may have been part of an experiment?- were all walking with a strange gait, like Zombies. When the dose was lowered, their motor functions improved relatively.

[Adam]

As the thread post says, Bamber was going ahead regardless. He only had a short window of opportunity.

If he felt he could kill Nevill & June, then it would be ditto with Sheila.

Fooling everyone while simultanrously becoming very rich was too much of a temptation.

As it happened, lots of sources suggest Sheila was very compliant. A bonus for Bamber. 

This was due to her docile & uncordinated nature. Common side effects of Haloperiodal.

[lookout]

It was motor functions she was having problems with and complained about. Such seems to be a problem with high doses of antipsychotics. There was a programme about it. The filmed at the Maudsley and the patients -who I believe may have been part of an experiment?- were all walking with a strange gait, like Zombies. When the dose was lowered, their motor functions improved relatively.

A big problem with many prescription drugs in that they invariably create other problems while treating an initial problem to which they were meant for, which if the right drug, perseverance is key in allowing it to be of benefit. Sheila I'm afraid didn't give it chance to overcome the initial problems with it as it can take a good 6 weeks for the body to be accustomed to any drug before you notice its efficacy.

[lookout]

Saying that, there were also drugs to help with side-effects which Sheila hadn't/ didn't take.

[Jane]

A big problem with many prescription drugs in that they invariably create other problems while treating an initial problem to which they were meant for, which if the right drug, perseverance is key in allowing it to be of benefit. Sheila I'm afraid didn't give it chance to overcome the initial problems with it as it can take a good 6 weeks for the body to be accustomed to any drug before you notice its efficacy.

Oh, I totally agree!! Indeed, I'd go as far as saying they can cause worse problems than the one they're curing. Perseverance can only be taken so far, though. If the drug makes normal living impossible, an alternative has to be found. An example of which is medication for hypertension. Patients often feel much worse on one that reduces bp, than when their bp is higher.

Sheila had been taking Haloperidol for approximately 22 weeks, more than long enough for efficacy to kick in. Certainly the initial dosage was too high, but I imagine it was given to bring her out of psychosis asap. Would it have been more thoroughly checked, then reduced before she left, had she stayed, rather than discharging herself because she didn't want Christine to see her in hospital? We'll never know. I suspect it might be said that her dosage was being 'tweaked' until it was at a level she could tolerate.

[lookout]

Oh, I totally agree!! Indeed, I'd go as far as saying they can cause worse problems than the one they're curing. Perseverance can only be taken so far, though. If the drug makes normal living impossible, an alternative has to be found. An example of which is medication for hypertension. Patients often feel much worse on one that reduces bp, than when their bp is higher.

Sheila had been taking Haloperidol for approximately 22 weeks, more than long enough for efficacy to kick in. Certainly the initial dosage was too high, but I imagine it was given to bring her out of psychosis asap. Would it have been more thoroughly checked, then reduced before she left, had she stayed, rather than discharging herself because she didn't want Christine to see her in hospital? We'll never know. I suspect it might be said that her dosage was being 'tweaked' until it was at a level she could tolerate.

Do we know if there were follow-up appointments after her discharge from hospital, or indeed home visits ?

[Jane]

Do we know if there were follow-up appointments after her discharge from hospital, or indeed home visits ?

It's my understanding that she attended her surgery for her injections, but that's just the physical aspect of her care. It seems that the psych/mental health nurses who should have visited her, failed to. I'm not entirely certain why that was. I'd first believed that the message hadn't been passed from private health care to NHS, but I think it's possible that they went once and she wasn't there. Whether or not they'd notified her that they were going wasn't clear.

[Adam]

The 14 sources in reply 191 confirm Sheila was very compliant to Bamber's persuasion & cohersion.

It simultaneously shows Sheila did not committ the massacre. She could barely walk or talk, let alone sustain a prolonged attack on two adults & two children.

[snow66!]

She'd received 2 lower dose injections and her blood/urine was still showing moderate levels.

Hi Jane.I do not think that is correct,it was only her last dose on 11th July that was halved.

[snow66!]

From Dr Angeloglous' statement. 2 may 1985 Haldol 200mg,11 june 1985 Haldol 200mg,11 july Haldol 100mg.

[snow66!]

I think it is worth pointing out that when Sheila requested that her Haloperidol be reduced because she was tired,that Dr Angeloglou thought the reason for her tiredness may be due to the fact she was not taking her procyclidene tablets.Why was this not followed up?According to Dr Angeloglou Sheila was prescribed a months supply of procyclidene tablets on 29th April,so she would have been due a repeat prescription on29th May.There is no mention of a repeat prescription on this date.Did Dr Wilkinson ask Sheila about the procyclidene tablets ? Did she know she was due a repeat prescription? Did she get one on 29th May? If not,why not,and why was this not checked when Dr Angeloglou discussed Sheilas reduced dose of Haloperiol with Dr Wilkinson.Surely Dr Angeloglou had a record of the dates Sheila had been prescribed the procyclidene tablets,and knowing the Haloperidol was a strong tranquillizer ,it should have been important to check if she was taking them.And surely imperitive to keep her supplied with repeat prescriptions.Wasnt it too late for the Doctors to discuss whether or not Sheila was taking the tablets BEFORE they agreed to lower the dose of Haloperidol?If they made checks as to whether Sheila was taking the tablets,a reduction of the Haloperidol may have been avoided.Sheilas was a very serious case,and No mistakes in her medication could be afforded.Dr Ferguson says in CALS book that 100mg would be regarded as a small dose.After seeing the result of JBs trial on tv,Ferguson said he was 'glad that it wasnt Sheila after all'.I wonder why?