Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.

[lookout]

In the one I'm thinking of, Lookout, my description of her would be "strained and tense". There was something about the way she appeared to be gripping her wrist with her other hand. I have no idea whereabouts she was in her illness, but she seemed devoid of make-up -mask hiding who she was?- and I do recall that schizophrenics don't like having their pictures taken.

So there must have been an awareness of the condition Jane to recognise the fact that they won't look their best, one thing in Sheila's earliest years particularly her modelling when she sought reassurance on her appearance.
What I'm trying to explain is that Sheila could possibly have known that all wasn't as it should have been regarding how she'd felt. Had she realised herself that something wasn't right in her mind ? I can recollect when she cut short her modelling assignment in Japan when she wrote to Colin wanting to return home and requesting to see a psychiatrist.

I wonder how her feelings were at that time as to begin with, a long-haul journey is no mean feat when you're well so how she managed to fly both ways in such a short time made me wonder what the real reason was ? 

 

[lookout]

I think Sheila did what Sheila wanted to do and she didn't do things by halves. A girl without a filter.
Her behaviour was a way of getting her own back on those who were controlling her----her ex-husband and her mother.

[Jane]

So there must have been an awareness of the condition Jane to recognise the fact that they won't look their best, one thing in Sheila's earliest years particularly her modelling when she sought reassurance on her appearance.
What I'm trying to explain is that Sheila could possibly have known that all wasn't as it should have been regarding how she'd felt. Had she realised herself that something wasn't right in her mind ? I can recollect when she cut short her modelling assignment in Japan when she wrote to Colin wanting to return home and requesting to see a psychiatrist.

I wonder how her feelings were at that time as to begin with, a long-haul journey is no mean feat when you're well so how she managed to fly both ways in such a short time made me wonder what the real reason was ? 

 

I wonder how much of the wanting to see a psychiatrist was about June's bouts of mental illness, thus her fears that she may be going the same way? I'm presuming that June may have been in constant contact with Dr Ferguson out of fear of another breakdown. Hardly a healthy atmosphere in which to bring up an impressionable child. The point I'm making is that it's not possible to find a psychiatrist and make an appointment without going through a GP first, even if one then chooses to go privately.

I think Sheila did what Sheila wanted to do and she didn't do things by halves. A girl without a filter.
Her behaviour was a way of getting her own back on those who were controlling her----her ex-husband and her mother.

I really don't see Colin as controlling. I see Sheila as totally compliant because she'd been trained to be. It's not something she could have changed without a lot of therapy.

[Adam]

This is the only part of interest to me Adam--Either wake and shoot or shoot an already awake Sheila.Evidence,Sheila found shot in the corner of main bedroom.Sheila on Haloperidol so easy to control--Well meaning no disrespect Adam,this is even far less detailed than the police report sent to the DPP,and as for evidence,this statement holds none that i can see.Being found in the corner of the main bedroom is merely a fact,not evidence.Sheila on Haloperidol so easy to control,you are more or less saying Sheila has been hypnotised and under JBs command.Being drowsy and sedated does not by any stretch of the imagination mean tou have lost the will to live,and are willing to sit still and be shot.Sorry Adam,but your scenario dosent prove anything.

I've actually created a thread a few days ago - 'Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila'.

Actually, it's this thread!

However the evidence is Sheila was very docile on the night. Due to the Haloperiodal.

[Adam]

"Cycle to WHF:

Evidence - June's bike brought over to Bamber's cottage just before massacre.  Easy journey. Unseen.

.......

Cycle home:

Evidence - Bike found at Bambers cottage"


Where is the evidence the bike was actually used that night? it was ridden across muddy tracks and fields, it would be obvious if it had been used?

I feel more BS coming!

It is surprising supporters oppose that Bamber cycled to WHF. It is a slam dunk for guilters.

He stole June's bike a few days before the massacre!

[Jane]

I've actually created a thread a few days ago - 'Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila'.

Actually, it's this thread!

However the evidence is Sheila was very docile on the night. Due to the Haloperiodal.

Choosing to ignore that Haloperidol dosage was theraputic means it's easy to carry on claiming Sheila to be the culprit.

[lookout]

Choosing to ignore that Haloperidol dosage was theraputic means it's easy to carry on claiming Sheila to be the culprit.

Jane, it's  debateable whether medication dosages are therapeutic in lots of circumstances. The body and mind goes through all sorts of changes in 24hrs and whatever affects the body affects the mind also and vice-versa. 
As in my own circumstances taking ( presently ) a therapeutic dose of warfarin, but that could all change and adjustments made after a blood-test which could register either above or below the International Normalized Ratio ( INR ) or bleeding time. This adjustment can be caused by all kinds of things, food, emotions, nobody knows for sure why it fluctuates. It's not failsafe and can cause internal bleeding. Warfarin doesn't agree with everyone.

In Sheila's case, her therapeutic dose should have been checked regularly particularly as she was a cannabis smoker which would have had its own problems within the brain, so although written up as a therapeutic dose it doesn't always play out because of lifestyles.
Sheila's initial high dose was administered for a reason ! But there again, was it the correct medication ?  Or did it exacerbate her problems ? We'll never know. One man's meat and all that.

[Jane]

Jane, it's  debateable whether medication dosages are therapeutic in lots of circumstances. The body and mind goes through all sorts of changes in 24hrs and whatever affects the body affects the mind also and vice-versa. 
As in my own circumstances taking ( presently ) a therapeutic dose of warfarin, but that could all change and adjustments made after a blood-test which could register either above or below the International Normalized Ratio ( INR ) or bleeding time. This adjustment can be caused by all kinds of things, food, emotions, nobody knows for sure why it fluctuates. It's not failsafe and can cause internal bleeding. Warfarin doesn't agree with everyone.

In Sheila's case, her therapeutic dose should have been checked regularly particularly as she was a cannabis smoker which would have had its own problems within the brain, so although written up as a therapeutic dose it doesn't always play out because of lifestyles.
Sheila's initial high dose was administered for a reason ! But there again, was it the correct medication ?  Or did it exacerbate her problems ? We'll never know. One man's meat and all that.

I absolutely agree that the initial high dose was given for a reason. She was taken in agitated and probably terrified. Normalizing her, as quickly as possible, would have been imperative. More, I'll agree that the dose should, in a perfect world in which things are always done correctly/laid down guide-lines followed, have been lowered prior to her leaving. We'll never know if it may have been had she not left earlier than would have been preferred because of Christine's imminent visit. Do we know if she was given blood tests when she received the three doses she was given? She clearly didn't feel 'normal' on the higher dose. Seems, unsurprisingly, she felt unable to function. However, she'd received two lowered doses. There have emerged no further complaints regarding them.

The tox report only give a "slight positive" reading for cannabis. I claims that it wouldn't have had detrimental effect on the Haloperidol.

Sheila and her meds can only be judged on what we know. The potential for speculation about those things which may possibly be the case, and the variables within them, are limitless, but not necessarily helpful.

[lookout]

I absolutely agree that the initial high dose was given for a reason. She was taken in agitated and probably terrified. Normalizing her, as quickly as possible, would have been imperative. More, I'll agree that the dose should, in a perfect world in which things are always done correctly/laid down guide-lines followed, have been lowered prior to her leaving. We'll never know if it may have been had she not left earlier than would have been preferred because of Christine's imminent visit. Do we know if she was given blood tests when she received the three doses she was given? She clearly didn't feel 'normal' on the higher dose. Seems, unsurprisingly, she felt unable to function. However, she'd received two lowered doses. There have emerged no further complaints regarding them.

The tox report only give a "slight positive" reading for cannabis. I claims that it wouldn't have had detrimental effect on the Haloperidol.

Sheila and her meds can only be judged on what we know. The potential for speculation about those things which may possibly be the case, and the variables within them, are limitless, but not necessarily helpful.

I'd forgotten about Christine's visit. It would have been interesting to have heard from her herself how it went and her general opinion of Sheila.

[Jane]

I'd forgotten about Christine's visit. It would have been interesting to have heard from her herself how it went and her general opinion of Sheila.

It most definitely would!!!

[Steve_uk]

Yes,almost all the shots were fired at stationary targets from close contact to about a couple of feet.Hardly like shooting at approaching soldiers on horse back at a hundred yards.I think we can disperse with the term marksman in this instance.

..and can we dispense with the fact that it was Jeremy Bamber who is proficient in firearms, not Sheila?

[Steve_uk]

Too weak Adam.May i ask you another question,why didnt JB shoot June in the HEAD while she was sleeping?

There were six shots in total, two shots to the head, one of which was possibly discharged as she lay in bed.

[snow66!]

..and can we dispense with the fact that it was Jeremy Bamber who is proficient in firearms, not Sheila?

Hi Steve,point is no one could miss at this distance.Whether Sheila could operate or re-load a rifle,i do not know.I have not seen much descussion on this topic,either here or on the podcasts.What is the general consensus on this Steve?

[Steve_uk]

Hi Adam,hope your well today.Now,you say JB knew where he wanted to kill Sheila.Why did he want to kill Sheila in her parents bedroom? If she slept through the shooting,why not sneak in and shoot her where she lay.That way he didnt have to tell her anything or risk her going berserk when she saw her mothers body.And apparantly her feet,body and night dress were spotlessly clean with no one elses blood,only her own.It wasnt as if he shot her in the main bedroom and smeared her with the others blood or anything.So why move her to the main bedroom?

He didn't want any contact with blood. He staged the scene in the master bedroom, knowing full well it would be nigh on impossible for anyone to distinguish between Sheila shooting herself with an Anschütz rifle and someone's hand guiding it to achieve the same diabolical outcome.

[snow66!]

There were six shots in total, two shots to the head, one of which was possibly discharged as she lay in bed.

Thats not what the police report sent to the DPP says Steve.They say both head shots were inflicted once JB returned from the kitchen.