Author Topic: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.  (Read 22834 times)

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Offline Adam

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Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« on: March 20, 2022, 09:10:AM »
After months of planning, Bamber had a 4 evening window of opportunity.

He was going ahead regardless of Sheila's condition. The rewards were too tempting.

The WS's of Bamber, PB & Julie, together with the crime scene evidence suggests Sheila was very docile & put up no/minimal resistance.

However Bamber would have no problems controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 09:20:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2022, 09:19:AM »
Reasons:

Bamber was physically a lot stronger.

Bamber was determined & confident.

Bamber was prepared & had a plan.

Sheila was unprepared.

Bamber had a rifle.

Sheila would trust Bamber.

Bamber was fully clothed.

Very unlikely Sheila woke so would not be aware what was happening.

If Sheila did wake, no guarantee she would get up.

If Sheila woke & got up,  she would think it was a burglar & be compliant.

If Sheila got up, she may freeze.

Bamber had to get Sheila to move a few feet. Either through persuasion, cohersion. Or both. He could then take her to ground.

Bamber knew where he wanted to shoot Sheila. So knew what he had to do with her.

Bamber was hyped after his kitchen fight. Sheila was not going to stop him now.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 09:21:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2022, 09:22:AM »
As it happens, it is almost certain Sheila was very docile. A welcome bonus for Bamber.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Roch

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2022, 09:22:AM »
After months of planning, Bamber had a 4 evening window of opportunity.

He was going ahead regardless of Sheila's condition. The rewards were too tempting.

The WS's of Bamber, PB & Julie, together with the crime scene evidence suggests Sheila was very docile & put up no/minimal resistance.

However Bamber would have no problems controlling a fully fit Sheila.

In this scenario, it's difficult to imagine Sheila reacting in a docile manner, to the murder of her children.

Offline Adam

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2022, 09:26:AM »
In this scenario, it's difficult to imagine Sheila reacting in a docile manner, to the murder of her children.

If aware they had been shot. Which would only be after a lot of unlikely occurrences.

If aware they had been shot, that just may make her freeze. Knowing she is likely to be next.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2022, 10:02:AM »
If aware they had been shot. Which would only be after a lot of unlikely occurrences.

If aware they had been shot, that just may make her freeze. Knowing she is likely to be next.


Let's just suppose he told her they were dead. He may have told her that no one would suspect him because he had the perfect alibi. He may have told her that she'd be the main suspect because their parents had threatened to have her children taken away -after all, he'd been there when they said it, hadn't he. He may have told her that she wouldn't be given a prison sentence, she be put in a hospital for the criminally insane. Or she could commit suicide and put an end to it. He may have offered to 'help' her? If that had been the 'choice' she'd been offered, I can't see her putting up any sort of fight.

Offline lookout

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2022, 10:16:AM »
The thing is, JB's never shown any of this type of behaviour in almost 37 years ? It's the kind of behaviour that the like of Putin is showing now.

Offline Jane

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2022, 10:27:AM »
The thing is, JB's never shown any of this type of behaviour in almost 37 years ? It's the kind of behaviour that the like of Putin is showing now.


But he doesn't need to have shown his resentment for it to have been there. My friend's son was 60 before he revealed his hatred of boarding school. When asked why he'd never said anything, his response really stung. He told my friend that neither she nor his father had ever listened to what he wanted. They'd been too wrapped up in keeping his sister happy. My friend now admits to this, probably, being true. Sure, there's been no murder, they're a very gentle family. However, there's a huge rift between the siblings which, because the problems between them have been handed down to their children, will be likely to last for generations, until such time as no one can remember what caused it.

Offline lookout

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2022, 11:52:AM »

But he doesn't need to have shown his resentment for it to have been there. My friend's son was 60 before he revealed his hatred of boarding school. When asked why he'd never said anything, his response really stung. He told my friend that neither she nor his father had ever listened to what he wanted. They'd been too wrapped up in keeping his sister happy. My friend now admits to this, probably, being true. Sure, there's been no murder, they're a very gentle family. However, there's a huge rift between the siblings which, because the problems between them have been handed down to their children, will be likely to last for generations, until such time as no one can remember what caused it.






I can fully understand the resentment felt in those whose parents expect more from their offspring as regards education especially when it comes to boarding schools. It has proved to be very damaging in many cases in those pupils who were never meant to join such establishments and who also " didn't have a voice " to object in their futures.  Children/ teens should be guided and not moulded ( molded ) into something that the parents think fit.

Sheila had the right idea but went around it in the wrong way by waiting to be expelled for whatever reason, sadly because she couldn't speak out to her parents with her objections to such schooling. Saying that, she was still supported in doing what she'd decided to do, so why didn't Jeremy kick-off ? Because of the two siblings, he was the most sensitive and did as he was told-----under sufferance, the way his life's gone, sadly. I don't doubt for one minute that his stay at boarding school affected him but certainly not to the point that he'd murder anyone for his " sins ".

 

Offline Jane

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2022, 12:17:PM »





I can fully understand the resentment felt in those whose parents expect more from their offspring as regards education especially when it comes to boarding schools. It has proved to be very damaging in many cases in those pupils who were never meant to join such establishments and who also " didn't have a voice " to object in their futures.  Children/ teens should be guided and not moulded ( molded ) into something that the parents think fit.

Sheila had the right idea but went around it in the wrong way by waiting to be expelled for whatever reason, sadly because she couldn't speak out to her parents with her objections to such schooling. Saying that, she was still supported in doing what she'd decided to do, so why didn't Jeremy kick-off ? Because of the two siblings, he was the most sensitive and did as he was told-----under sufferance, the way his life's gone, sadly. I don't doubt for one minute that his stay at boarding school affected him but certainly not to the point that he'd murder anyone for his " sins ".

In all likelihood, both children had the same needs. It's just that Sheila -maybe because she was female?- knew how to get her needs met. Why did not JB "kick off"? Probably for the same reasons my friend's son didn't, although he has opened up since. I suspect that it takes rather more than boarding school for someone to want to commit murder, but it could certainly contribute to a very long list of things which might.

Online snow66!

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2022, 01:38:PM »
Reasons:

Bamber was physically a lot stronger.

Bamber was determined & confident.

Bamber was prepared & had a plan.

Sheila was unprepared.

Bamber had a rifle.

Sheila would trust Bamber.

Bamber was fully clothed.

Very unlikely Sheila woke so would not be aware what was happening.

If Sheila did wake, no guarantee she would get up.

If Sheila woke & got up,  she would think it was a burglar & be compliant.

If Sheila got up, she may freeze.

Bamber had to get Sheila to move a few feet. Either through persuasion, cohersion. Or both. He could then take her to ground.

Bamber knew where he wanted to shoot Sheila. So knew what he had to do with her.

Bamber was hyped after his kitchen fight. Sheila was not going to stop him now.
Hi Adam,hope your well today.Now,you say JB knew where he wanted to kill Sheila.Why did he want to kill Sheila in her parents bedroom? If she slept through the shooting,why not sneak in and shoot her where she lay.That way he didnt have to tell her anything or risk her going berserk when she saw her mothers body.And apparantly her feet,body and night dress were spotlessly clean with no one elses blood,only her own.It wasnt as if he shot her in the main bedroom and smeared her with the others blood or anything.So why move her to the main bedroom?

Offline Jane

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2022, 02:04:PM »
Hi Adam,hope your well today.Now,you say JB knew where he wanted to kill Sheila.Why did he want to kill Sheila in her parents bedroom? If she slept through the shooting,why not sneak in and shoot her where she lay.That way he didnt have to tell her anything or risk her going berserk when she saw her mothers body.And apparantly her feet,body and night dress were spotlessly clean with no one elses blood,only her own.It wasnt as if he shot her in the main bedroom and smeared her with the others blood or anything.So why move her to the main bedroom?

How was he going to make it look as if she'd shot her family and committed suicide if she was found, neatly tucked up in bed with a bullet hole? The possible reason she was found in her mother's bedroom would have been a miscalculation on his part. If he was capable of committing murder to include two small boys, he'd have been totally incapable of knowing how strong would be their mother's love for them, and subsequently, if they all had to die, she'd want them to be together.

Offline lookout

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2022, 03:15:PM »
In all likelihood, both children had the same needs. It's just that Sheila -maybe because she was female?- knew how to get her needs met. Why did not JB "kick off"? Probably for the same reasons my friend's son didn't, although he has opened up since. I suspect that it takes rather more than boarding school for someone to want to commit murder, but it could certainly contribute to a very long list of things which might.






To be perfectly honest I think Jeremy had been scared of his own shadow whilst growing up as such an upbringing can either kill or cure depending on the type of person one is. It didn't do Sheila any good as getting pregnant was her way of escaping then things went from bad to worse.

Any parent can tell if their offspring is a bright scholar or not or if they're of the mindset to be sent away to boarding school. Invariably it's the parents decision and not the child's, whether because both parents work or because it's convenient to do so, I personally don't believe in it because separation isn't good to start with and never having been separated from my own parents I can't begin to imagine what effect it had on a child, but it certainly would be everlasting.

My dear pa-in-law had my daughters lives mapped out as soon as they were out of nappies by offering to send them to the local Montessori school. I was horrified at the time to think that they'd be taken from 2 years old, so I declined. Even when it was suggested they go to a private school after primary age I politely refused. Initially because their half brother and sister were never offered the same when they'd been young as it didn't seem right to me even though they were years apart age-wise.

Online snow66!

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2022, 03:22:PM »
How was he going to make it look as if she'd shot her family and committed suicide if she was found, neatly tucked up in bed with a bullet hole? The possible reason she was found in her mother's bedroom would have been a miscalculation on his part. If he was capable of committing murder to include two small boys, he'd have been totally incapable of knowing how strong would be their mother's love for them, and subsequently, if they all had to die, she'd want them to be together.
But thats the point i was making Jane.We are told she was found neat and clean anyway.This was major evidence at trial.Apparently her feet were spotless,so why should it make any difference where she was found.And  you say that Sheila should have been found with the twins.This is just another bit of speculation to point to JBs guilt.Remember Sheila thought everyone around her was evil,her boyfriend was the Devil himself.You know what she had told Ferguson about the twins.With that mind set ,do you really think shooting herself in the twins room would have been of the uttmost importance to her.You are talking of a normal mother Jane,not a mentally ill one Jane.

Offline Jane

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2022, 03:48:PM »
But thats the point i was making Jane.We are told she was found neat and clean anyway.This was major evidence at trial.Apparently her feet were spotless,so why should it make any difference where she was found.And  you say that Sheila should have been found with the twins.This is just another bit of speculation to point to JBs guilt.Remember Sheila thought everyone around her was evil,her boyfriend was the Devil himself.You know what she had told Ferguson about the twins.With that mind set ,do you really think shooting herself in the twins room would have been of the uttmost importance to her.You are talking of a normal mother Jane,not a mentally ill one Jane.

You seem to have a collection of both facts and myths and lumped them together. Whilst much of what you say is factual, the time frame in which you've placed them, probably isn't, ergo, whilst it's true that Sheila, during her first stay in hospital, confided her fears regarding her sons, to Dr Ferguson, he says that, during her second stay, she was no longer focussed on her children or her mother, another cause of concern for her. There is nothing to suggest, now that she was appropriately medicated with a theraputic dose, that such thoughts ever entered her mind.