Sheilas Two Shots

[snow66!]

Is there any possibility you could break your posts up into paragraphs, as I have done above?  I don't mind long posts, but if you post without paragraphs it makes it very difficult to read, which is a shame.

Dr. Vanezis believed that the first shot to Sheila was when she was sitting up slightly.  It is entirely possible that Jeremy first shot her while forcing her on the floor - assuming he is guilty.  You mention Sheila being 'frozen'.  I assume this is metaphorical but I'm not sure what you mean exactly.  To position Sheila, she had to be moved, which means she had to move, which means she wasn't frozen in any sense.  If you mean what Ainsley said in the DPP Report, that she 'froze', well this was the Essex Police explanation for how Jeremy managed to manhandle Sheila, but if you think about it for five seconds, it doesn't make any sense unless we're saying that Sheila was already in the main bedroom and Jeremy quickly pinned her on the floor (perhaps shooting her too early in the process, hence Dr. Vanezis' evidence).

If you have not done so already, one thing I recommend you do is look at the analysis of the evidence of Martyn Ismail and Dr. Peter Vanezis in the 2002 appeal judgment.  I think the judges' analysis was mistaken and they were wrong to accept Mr Ismail's evidence, but it's still important to read it.

Hi Gascoigne,hope your well.I will study what you have said and give you a reply sometime tomorrow.As for breaking the post up into peragraphs,i have been asked this before.I will try my best to learn how to do this.Cheers for now and goodnight.

[Adam]

I don't believe Sheila froze. She was just easy to control.

Physically weak & uncordinated, half asleep, not knowing what was going on and under the influence of the sedative effects of Haloperidol.

The last two people to see/hear her alive - Bamber/housekeeper both commented on how docile she was. After observing Sheila, Bamber rang Julie to tell her 'tonights the night'.

The evidence shows Sheila put up no/minimal resistance. Which allowed Bamber's first shot to be a fatal one. Although not instantaneous.

[killingeve]

I don't believe Sheila froze. She was just easy to control.

Physically weak & uncordinated, half asleep, not knowing what was going on and under the influence of the sedative effects of Haloperidol.

The last two people to see/hear her alive - Bamber/housekeeper both commented on how docile she was. After observing Sheila, Bamber rang Julie to tell her 'tonights the night'.

The evidence shows Sheila put up no/minimal resistance. Which allowed Bamber's first shot to be a fatal one. Although not instantaneous.

You've overlooked how Aunty Pam also recalled she was unresponsive during the telephone call and didn't say goodnight as she normally would. 

[Jane]

Is there any possibility you could break your posts up into paragraphs, as I have done above?  I don't mind long posts, but if you post without paragraphs it makes it very difficult to read, which is a shame.

Dr. Vanezis believed that the first shot to Sheila was when she was sitting up slightly.  It is entirely possible that Jeremy first shot her while forcing her on the floor - assuming he is guilty.  You mention Sheila being 'frozen'.  I assume this is metaphorical but I'm not sure what you mean exactly.  To position Sheila, she had to be moved, which means she had to move, which means she wasn't frozen in any sense.  If you mean what Ainsley said in the DPP Report, that she 'froze', well this was the Essex Police explanation for how Jeremy managed to manhandle Sheila, but if you think about it for five seconds, it doesn't make any sense unless we're saying that Sheila was already in the main bedroom and Jeremy quickly pinned her on the floor (perhaps shooting her too early in the process, hence Dr. Vanezis' evidence).

If you have not done so already, one thing I recommend you do is look at the analysis of the evidence of Martyn Ismail and Dr. Peter Vanezis in the 2002 appeal judgment.  I think the judges' analysis was mistaken and they were wrong to accept Mr Ismail's evidence, but it's still important to read it.

There is an adjunct to the flight/fight states. It's FREEZE. A state in which we find ourselves totally incapable of movement. Usually bought about, as with fight/flight, by shock and/or fear.

[guest29835]

There is an adjunct to the flight/fight states. It's FREEZE. A state in which we find ourselves totally incapable of movement. Usually bought about, as with fight/flight, by shock and/or fear.

I know.  I've just explained in my post why, in this case, the theory doesn't hold.

[Adam]

You've overlooked how Aunty Pam also recalled she was unresponsive during the telephone call and didn't say goodnight as she normally would.

Sorry I thought that conversation was the housekeeper.

[snow66!]

Is there any possibility you could break your posts up into paragraphs, as I have done above?  I don't mind long posts, but if you post without paragraphs it makes it very difficult to read, which is a shame.

Dr. Vanezis believed that the first shot to Sheila was when she was sitting up slightly.  It is entirely possible that Jeremy first shot her while forcing her on the floor - assuming he is guilty.  You mention Sheila being 'frozen'.  I assume this is metaphorical but I'm not sure what you mean exactly.  To position Sheila, she had to be moved, which means she had to move, which means she wasn't frozen in any sense.  If you mean what Ainsley said in the DPP Report, that she 'froze', well this was the Essex Police explanation for how Jeremy managed to manhandle Sheila, but if you think about it for five seconds, it doesn't make any sense unless we're saying that Sheila was already in the main bedroom and Jeremy quickly pinned her on the floor (perhaps shooting her too early in the process, hence Dr. Vanezis' evidence).

If you have not done so already, one thing I recommend you do is look at the analysis of the evidence of Martyn Ismail and Dr. Peter Vanezis in the 2002 appeal judgment.  I think the judges' analysis was mistaken and they were wrong to accept Mr Ismail's evidence, but it's still important to read it.

Hi Gascoine,hope your well today.Well,i have looked at Carol Ann Lees book again,and you and Cutie are correct in thinking the phrase -Sheila froze-on page 415 comes from the official police scenario sent to the DPP to bring JB to trial.It also says Sheila walked through to the bedroom of her own accord while JB was in the kitchen with nevill.I have been looking through the 2002 appeal,but cant find Martyn Ismails evidence,can you tell me what number in the report his analysis starts Gascoigne?

[Jane]

Much has been made of how peaceful Sheila looked in death, the suggestion being that she hadn't witnessed any violence other that that she'd inflicted. I'm just watching something on CBSReality. In 1986 a home help found her elderly client apparently sleeping peacefully. She'd been sexually assaulted and beaten brutally. She can hardly be said to have died peacefully. Her death was initially recorded as natural causes.

[snow66!]

I am watching sky channel 187 Thats TV. Russ Abbots mad house was on,his see you jimmy act with Dustin Gee is hilarious.Now the Les Dawson show is on.You also get Benny Hill and The Kenny Everett show on this channel.What more could you want.You need a bit of light relief,you cant think about gruesome crimes every minute of the day.

[snow66!]

I don't believe Sheila froze. She was just easy to control.

Physically weak & uncordinated, half asleep, not knowing what was going on and under the influence of the sedative effects of Haloperidol.

The last two people to see/hear her alive - Bamber/housekeeper both commented on how docile she was. After observing Sheila, Bamber rang Julie to tell her 'tonights the night'.

The evidence shows Sheila put up no/minimal resistance. Which allowed Bamber's first shot to be a fatal one. Although not instantaneous.

Hi Adam,hope you are enjoying your Satarday night.I thought i would remind you exactly what Vanezis said about the non fatal wound,termed the lower one.  Q-What about the lower one?  A=The lower one is a different matter,because the lower one has injured soft tissue and fractured bone,but has not actually immediately damaged any of the vital organs,such as the brain or spinal chord,and so,although by means of haemorrhage and secondary effects from this wound,in my view it would PROBABLY,IF LEFT NEGLECTED,have been fatal.It was not as immediately damaging as the upper wound.    Q-So what you are saying is,if someone had received just that wound,and nothing had been done to staunch the blood or otherwise reduce its effects,that could EVENTUALLY be fatal?  A-It COULD be fatal,either fairly quickly from,POSSIBLY,an embolism through the brain,or much more SLOWLY through haemorrhage,but in any event,IF LEFT NEGLECTED,it would certainlly have caused a great deal of morbidity,if not fatal outcome.     So,at no time did Vanezis say the wound was definately a fatal one,even suggesting Sheila may have survived without immediate treatment,as long as a brain embolism did not occur.Therefore his testimony about the outcome of the first shot is totally inconclusive.One can only conclude it MAY have been fatal if no other wound was inflicted.

[Jane]

I am watching sky channel 187 Thats TV. Russ Abbots mad house was on,his see you jimmy act with Dustin Gee is hilarious.Now the Les Dawson show is on.You also get Benny Hill and The Kenny Everett show on this channel.What more could you want.You need a bit of light relief,you cant think about gruesome crimes every minute of the day.

Not my bag. I prefer real life. It's not all about "gruesome crime". In this particular case, a brutally murdered victim, like Sheila, being said to look as if she'd died peacefully.

[lookout]

Not my bag. I prefer real life. It's not all about "gruesome crime". In this particular case, a brutally murdered victim, like Sheila, being said to look as if she'd died peacefully.

Jane, I can't help thinking that Sheila did indeed die in peace as her " job " was done and her boys " would be joining her ". Sheila hadn't died a brutal death such as her parents had done.

[snow66!]

Not my bag. I prefer real life. It's not all about "gruesome crime". In this particular case, a brutally murdered victim, like Sheila, being said to look as if she'd died peacefully.

Hi Jane,hope your enjoying the day of rest.Dont you like any comedy programmes Jane? How about Max Wall doing his silly walks,or George Carl trying to play the mouth organ while his microphone keeps slipping down.Absolutely hilarious.Please check them out,if you have never seen their acts before,i guarentee they will have you in stitches.

[Jane]

Hi Jane,hope your enjoying the day of rest.Dont you like any comedy programmes Jane? How about Max Wall doing his silly walks,or George Carl trying to play the mouth organ while his microphone keeps slipping down.Absolutely hilarious.Please check them out,if you have never seen their acts before,i guarentee they will have you in stitches.

Snow, I don't find contrived humour funny. Memories of poor Frank Spencer in "Some Mothers......" being ridiculed for being intellectually lacking, still makes me nauseous, as does pathetic Timothy in "Sorry" being bullied and infantalized by his overbearing mother. However, real life humour? THAT I do find hilarious.

[snow66!]

Snow, I don't find contrived humour funny. Memories of poor Frank Spencer in "Some Mothers......" being ridiculed for being intellectually lacking, still makes me nauseous, as does pathetic Timothy in "Sorry" being bullied and infantalized by his overbearing mother. However, real life humour? THAT I do find hilarious.

Hi Jane,i thought everyone liked Some mothers do ave em ,the stunts alone made the show memorable.As for Sorry ,i rarely watched that,it was by no means a classic.What do you mean by real life comedy Jane,something like Billy Connollys observations or actual footage like youve been framed.Or maybe  jusy observing others your self ?