Did Bamber's AM give him the confidence to commit the massacre?

[Adam]

The two possibilities pre massacre regarding what Bamber knew on the technology BT/the police had to track phone calls are -

He was (correctly) 100% certain BT/the police could not obtain information on whether a call was made/answered from WHF/Coldhanger. 

He did not know what information BT/the police could obtain.

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If it was the second situation, his AM gave him the confidence to commit the massacre.

He could -

Phone from WHF.

Have his call answered by his AM.

Terminate the call at WHF.

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[Adam]

It's possible he would not have committed the massacre without an AM.

[Adam]

His AM also proved to be a vital downfall once he became a suspect.

Nevill would have left a message or hung up when the AM switched on after a few seconds.

Bamber remaining asleep upstairs.

[ILB]

An AM also proved to be a vital downfall once he became a suspect.

Nevill would have left a message or hung up when the AM switched on after a few seconds.

Bamber remaining asleep upstairs.

but from the outset in his first initial WS in August 1985. Bamber claimed he had received a telephone call from his father and they spoke. That has been his narrative from day one.

It was a tiny cottage 9 head street. Bamber could have been a light sleeper. the possibility that he managed to answer the phone is not an absurd proposition

[Adam]

but from the outset in his first initial WS in August 1985. Bamber claimed he had received a telephone call from his father and they spoke. That has been his narrative from day one.

It was a tiny cottage 9 head street. Bamber could have been a light sleeper. the possibility that he managed to answer the phone is not an absurd proposition

The crime scene evidence shows this did not happen.

He would barely be able to hear his downstairs phone. Espescially if his bedroom door was shut. Even if awake. But that's what AM's are for.   

[killingeve]

There's no evidence he had an AM pre murders.  If he did it would be more of a hindrance than a help.

[killingeve]

The crime scene evidence shows this did not happen.

He would barely be able to hear his downstairs phone. Espescially if his bedroom door was shut. Even if awake. But that's what AM's are for.

You don't know:

- whether or not the bedroom door was closed
- how sound carried within the property
- how loud the ringtone was

There's no evidence he had an AM. 

[killingeve]

The two possibilities pre massacre regarding what Bamber knew on the technology BT/the police had to track phone calls are -

He was (correctly) 100% certain BT/the police could not obtain information on whether a call was made/answered from WHF/Coldhanger. 

He did not know what information BT/the police could obtain.

----------

If it was the second situation, his AM gave him the confidence to commit the massacre.

He could -

Phone from WHF.

Have his call answered by his AM.

Terminate the call at WHF.

---------

There's no evidence he had an AM pre murders.

Even if he did how on earth could it assist?  All the AM would say is you were called on 7th Aug at 3.30am.  It wouldn't leave the callers number either on the AM or within BT's infrastructure therefore no proof of who called.  How could he implicate Sheila?  How could he justify the time of the call from WHF/timestaped on AM and any time spent thereafter before taking further action?  But what action could he take?  Since the AM would not provide any info re the callers number how could he then link it to WHF? 

[killingeve]

Bamber may have concluded that calls could be traced on the basis the IRA always used pre-selected phone boxes to give out bomb warnings.  But this was the IRA calling the police and the only way then of tracing the caller was identifying the number/line whilst the IRA were on the phone. 

Coroner Sir Peter Thornton QC asked Mr Conway if the the faulty phone box story could have been a "well-orchestrated and convenient lie" for the bomb team to tell their superiors and escape punishment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47655204

The IRA always used phone boxes and never called on residential lines from safe houses. 

Bamber was probably bluffing when he said he thought the police could check calls.  Mr Bamber may have known given he was a magistrate and Bamber may have sounded him out. 

[Adam]

There's no evidence he had an AM pre murders.

Even if he did how on earth could it assist?  All the AM would say is you were called on 7th Aug at 3.30am.  It wouldn't leave the callers number either on the AM or within BT's infrastructure therefore no proof of who called.  How could he implicate Sheila?  How could he justify the time of the call from WHF/timestaped on AM and any time spent thereafter before taking further action?  But what action could he take?  Since the AM would not provide any info re the callers number how could he then link it to WHF?

There is no evidence he didn't. Although evidence from Mike, CAL, Wilkes, Brett & Caroline he had one before/after the massacre.

[Adam]

There's no evidence he had an AM pre murders.

Even if he did how on earth could it assist?  All the AM would say is you were called on 7th Aug at 3.30am.  It wouldn't leave the callers number either on the AM or within BT's infrastructure therefore no proof of who called.  How could he implicate Sheila?  How could he justify the time of the call from WHF/timestaped on AM and any time spent thereafter before taking further action?  But what action could he take?  Since the AM would not provide any info re the callers number how could he then link it to WHF?

Did you not read the thread post?

It leaves a record of a 3am call from WHF to his cottage. Which was answered at his cottage.  Then terminated at WHF.

If BT/the police had the technology to check this in 1985.

Not sure how people do not understand that. Unless CC is on a wind up.

[Adam]

Did you not read the thread post?

It leaves a record of a 3am call from WHF to his cottage. Which was answered at his cottage.  Then terminated at WHF.

If BT/the police had the technology to check this in 1985.

Not sure how people do not understand that. Unless CC is on a wind up.

In other words, Neville called him. Said 11 words. Then put the phone down.

[Armchair Detective]

Bamber may have concluded that calls could be traced on the basis the IRA always used pre-selected phone boxes to give out bomb warnings.  But this was the IRA calling the police and the only way then of tracing the caller was identifying the number/line whilst the IRA were on the phone. 

Coroner Sir Peter Thornton QC asked Mr Conway if the the faulty phone box story could have been a "well-orchestrated and convenient lie" for the bomb team to tell their superiors and escape punishment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47655204

The IRA always used phone boxes and never called on residential lines from safe houses. 

Bamber was probably bluffing when he said he thought the police could check calls.  Mr Bamber may have known given he was a magistrate and Bamber may have sounded him out.

'Tis a very good point this.

We have all seen the movies when someone has to keep the perp on the line long enough for the peelers to trace the call.

The fact that BT couldn't provide that information after the event was likely not such specialist knowledge in 1985 as we might assume and Bamber was just bluffing.

I do see Adam's point that an AM gives JB a way of connecting a call to Bourtree cottage just in case but this would tie him to a tight timeframe, ie he couldn't call his AM at 2.30 and then the police an hour later when he has cleaned up. It was bad enough he took ten minutes to look in a phonebook which even in 1985 were listed in alphabetical order!

I vote bluffing.

[Jane]

'Tis a very good point this.

We have all seen the movies when someone has to keep the perp on the line long enough for the peelers to trace the call.

The fact that BT couldn't provide that information after the event was likely not such specialist knowledge in 1985 as we might assume and Bamber was just bluffing.

I do see Adam's point that an AM gives JB a way of connecting a call to Bourtree cottage just in case but this would tie him to a tight timeframe, ie he couldn't call his AM at 2.30 and then the police an hour later when he has cleaned up. It was bad enough he took ten minutes to look in a phonebook which even in 1985 were listed in alphabetical order!

I vote bluffing.

If I'm correct in thinking that the tapes in AM's could be replaced, it gives JB an alternative. He can make a call from WHF, check it when he gets back and if it's a satisfactory, just remove the tape.

[lookout]

How did JB enter and exit WHF that night when everywhere was locked/ sealed within ?