Telecoms in 1985

[Rob_]

Actually he probably phoned his cottage around 2.50am. Then phoned Julie around 3.15am.

In all the excitement he lost track of time. Or thought a shorter gap between receiving Nevill's call & phoning the police was better.

No Adam, JB fakes the call because he believes BT log the calls, so he will have phoned BC from WHF at 3.10 and in this scenario the cycle is not fast enough, perhaps he had a taxi waiting outside?

[guest29835]

So now we're saying Jeremy phoned himself at 2.50 a.m.

We'll err on the side of the prosecution and say he has nothing else to do in the farmhouse at this point and can leave quickly.  So he makes off from the farm reasonably smartly at 2.55 a.m.

Adam says he rings Julie from the cottage at 3.15 a.m.  You'll see immediately that the timings are still tight.  He has to be very careful not to be seen around Goldhanger and the cottage especially.

For this to work, he needs to be at the cottage by 3.10 a.m. and then ring Julie quickly and only be on the phone with her briefly. 

He speaks with PC West at 3.24 a.m., so he has a 10-minute window after his call to Julie to shower, change and compose himself.

All the time he is doing this, it will be on his mind that the police may ask him why it took him almost 35 minutes to get through to the police.  This must be why he lied in his statement and said 3.10 a.m. for Nevill's call.  He then suggests to the police in an interview that they should check on the call times with British Telecom.

Of course, all of this is possible, but the issue here is plausibility: it doesn't sound convincing to me.

[Adam]

No Adam, JB fakes the call because he believes BT log the calls, so he will have phoned BC from WHF at 3.10 and in this scenario the cycle is not fast enough, perhaps he had a taxi waiting outside?

Just need a BT log to show a 10 second phone call took place at 3.10am from WHF on the night.

Good luck finding that.

Oh & Bamber is saying he phoned the police at 3.36am. So there is time.

[ILB]

The technology was not there in 1985. If it was it would be all over the internet.

We are saying Bamber phoned his cottage because he wasn't sure what technology BT had.

So what you are stating is back in 1985 nobody had the capacity or technology to trace phonecalls

[guest29835]

If he had planned this murders for months, I am sure he would have done his homework if calls could be traced or not.

One could say he was adamant because he knew it couldn't.

He even said a pathetic thing in desperation , that a witness could have seen him through the window taking the call! Ya right, what are the chances of someone seeing him taking a call at 3am in a quiet rural  " sleepy" village?

Who told him?  Where did he find this information?  How?

[guest29835]

Just need a BT log to show a 10 second phone call took place at 3.10am from WHF on the night.

Good luck finding that.

Oh & Bamber is saying he phoned the police at 3.36am. So there is time.

So to be clear, now you're saying that Jeremy was telling the truth all along and he rang Julie at 3.30 a.m.?

[Adam]

So now we're saying Jeremy phoned himself at 2.50 a.m.

We'll err on the side of the prosecution and say he has nothing else to do in the farmhouse at this point and can leave quickly.  So he makes off from the farm reasonably smartly at 2.55 a.m.

Adam says he rings Julie from the cottage at 3.15 a.m.  You'll see immediately that the timings are still tight.  He has to be very careful not to be seen around Goldhanger and the cottage especially.

For this to work, he needs to be at the cottage by 3.10 a.m. and then ring Julie quickly and only be on the phone with her briefly. 

He speaks with PC West at 3.24 a.m., so he has a 10-minute window after his call to Julie to shower, change and compose himself.

All the time he is doing this, it will be on his mind that the police may ask him why it took him almost 35 minutes to get through to the police.  This must be why he lied in his statement and said 3.10 a.m. for Nevill's call.  He then suggests to the police in an interview that they should check on the call times with British Telecom.

Of course, all of this is possible, but the issue here is plausibility: it doesn't sound convincing to me.

That is what I just said. Assuming he did phone WHF at all.

And assuming he did phone Julie at 3.15am.

Bamber told the police he received Nevill's call around 3.10am.

What is the problem.

[Rob_]

Just need a BT log to show a 10 second phone call took place at 3.10am from WHF on the night.

Good luck finding that.

Oh & Bamber is saying he phoned the police at 3.36am. So there is time.

I won't find it Adam you are the one saying he is guilty not me. Your whole scenario is not remotely plausible.

[Adam]

As said it would not be hard to cover the calls -

Ring his answering machine from WHF.

Leave a 10 second message. Disconnect call. Meaning he could not call back if answering from his cottage. As he stated.

Leave bedroom/kitchen phone off the hook, as evidence shows.

Exit WHF. Cycle back. As evidence shows. Time estimate 15 minutes.

Delete message. Ring the police.

---------

Believe he intially said he immediately rang the police. Later saying he spent around 15 minutes looking for the number of Chelmsford police. Which matches the cycle back time.

This is a straight forward scenario.

QC will try to go around in circles on specific times.

If Bamber did phone his cottage from WHF, it would be around 2.45am - 3.00am.

He then cycles back & phones Julie/the police.

That is if he did phone WHF.

[guest29835]

That is what I just said. Assuming he did phone WHF at all.

And assuming he did phone Julie at 3.15am.

Bamber told the police he received Nevill's call around 3.10am.

What is the problem.

The problem is that you're all over the place.  You're the one who boasts that you know it all about this case and that Jeremy is definitely guilty beyond all doubt, so make up your mind please about what occurred.

You're being evasive and changing the times and explanations when cornered because the prosecution case does not add up.

If Jeremy did this, he must have invented the call from Nevill, but he then tells the police to check with BT.  It's now suggested he was just being cocky.  I note that whenever a stumbling block arises in this case, it's always put down to Jeremy being arrogant or cocky.  That's the go-to explanation.

Ok, let's say he was being cocky, we're still left with doubt about the safety of the conviction because we have a story that doesn't add up.

Someone else says Jeremy must have established the position with BT as part of his planning.  So he rang up BT and asked them?  I can only assume he must have done so under a false name.  Who did he speak to?  I doubt an ordinary BT operator would know this information.  The police looked into this and needed a witness statement from an engineer and even his evidence is inconclusive.

[Adam]

I won't find it Adam you are the one saying he is guilty not me. Your whole scenario is not remotely plausible.

It does not exist.

Keep up.

[guest29835]

This is a straight forward scenario.

QC will try to go around in circles on specific times.

If Bamber did phone his cottage from WHF, it would be around 2.45am - 3.00am.

He then cycles back & phones Julie/the police.

That is if he did phone WHF.

You are now putting the time back potentially by another five minutes, but conceding that you think it could have been as late as 3.00 a.m., when I have already shown you that this is next-to-impossible, and certainly rather implausible. 

You don't have a clue.

[Adam]

As said it would not be hard to cover the calls -

Ring his answering machine from WHF.

Leave a 10 second message. Disconnect call. Meaning he could not call back if answering from his cottage. As he stated.

Leave bedroom/kitchen phone off the hook, as evidence shows.

Exit WHF. Cycle back. As evidence shows. Time estimate 15 minutes.

Delete message. Ring the police.

---------

Believe he intially said he immediately rang the police. Later saying he spent around 15 minutes looking for the number of Chelmsford police. Which matches the cycle back time.

This is a straight forward scenario. Assuming he did ring his cottage.

Not sure what else can be done.

[Munksa]

Who told him?  Where did he find this information?  How?

I wish I had an answer to that.

Where there a will there is a way. He could have started it as casual conversation, he knew lots of people around London Clubs and I am sure some of them will be unsavoury characters. He could have got an idea.

Mind you I said COULD.

[Adam]

QC & Rob need a phone record copy of a call from WHF at around 3am. 

Otherwise no one will ever know -

If a call was made.

What time it was made.