If it wisnae him, who was it? Initial Reaction After Reading Case Summaries

[guest29835]

Why does he need to reclothe her? https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+JONES+MURDER+TRIAL%3A+NAKED+AND+MUTILATED%3B+Jury+see+video+of+her...-a0124597244

Sorry, I thought I'd read somewhere that she was found semi-naked with some clothing on.  Must be my mistake.

[guest29835]

If she was found naked, that does seem to me a further point against him.  It implies she knew and trusted the assailant.  If somebody had threatened her at knife point and told her to strip, she could have fled.

[guest29835]

One further comment and I will probably leave it for the evening.

Now that I know she was found naked, and taking that fact together with other facts, I have come to the provisional conclusion that the killer is somebody she knew.  It must be somebody very close to her.

The only thing that could change my mind about that and consider a predator killing (apart from somebody confessing) is if it turns out that blood was found on any of her upper clothing - shirt, jacket, maybe bra.

[Bubo bubo]

One further comment and I will probably leave it for the evening.

Now that I know she was found naked, and taking that fact together with other facts, I have come to the provisional conclusion that the killer is somebody she knew.  It must be somebody very close to her.

The only thing that could change my mind about that and consider a predator killing (apart from somebody confessing) is if it turns out that blood was found on any of her upper clothing - shirt, jacket, maybe bra.

Just a  thought, could the urine be stored to evade tests of some kind? Some parents test their children for drugs if they think they have a drug problem, I understand. Her clothes were cut from her body and her bra was cut in the middle. The two parts were placed together one inside the other and laid by her body.

[guest29835]

Just a  thought, could the urine be stored to evade tests of some kind? Some parents test their children for drugs if they think they have a drug problem, I understand. Her clothes were cut from her body and her bra was cut in the middle. The two parts were placed together one inside the other and laid by her body.

Good point.

What do you think of the deduction, so far, that the killer had to be somebody known to her?  Do you agree or disagree?  The issue I have with a predator killer is that, if she was found naked, whoever did this has to persuade her to undress or force her to undress.  The first seems unlikely in all the surrounding circumstances (meeting boyfriend at same location, and so on), the second I may be persuaded of if there was blood on the upper clothes that were discarded at the scene.  Otherwise, she could have just fled or screamed merry-hell, couldn't she?

[Bubo bubo]

Good point.

What do you think of the deduction, so far, that the killer had to be somebody known to her?  Do you agree or disagree?  The issue I have with a predator killer is that, if she was found naked, whoever did this has to persuade her to undress or force her to undress.  The first seems unlikely in all the surrounding circumstances (meeting boyfriend at same location, and so on), the second I may be persuaded of if there was blood on the upper clothes that were discarded at the scene.  Otherwise, she could have just fled or screamed merry-hell, couldn't she?

She received a blunt force trauma to the back of the head. This could have facilitated the attacker to gain the upper hand whilst she was bound. No weapon was found. Some of her hair had been pulled from her scalp. It looked as if she had put up a struggle according to reports. The crime scene was not protected and overnight rain disturbed the forensics. LM could not have planned for that.

[guest29835]

She received a blunt force trauma to the back of the head. This could have facilitated the attacker to gain the upper hand whilst she was bound. No weapon was found. Some of her hair had been pulled from her scalp. It looked as if she had put up a struggle according to reports.

OK, that does make me think.  He must have done that on the path.  So we're saying the killer pulls her clothes off while she is unconscious. 

Do you know if any blood was found on the discarded clothes?

[Bubo bubo]

OK, that does make me think.  He must have done that on the path.  So we're saying the killer pulls her clothes off while she is unconscious. 

Do you know if any blood was found on the discarded clothes?

No I do not but she could have been lured over the wall by cries for help or from someone pretending to be lost. She may have been attacked on the path and bundled over the wall. Her clothes were cut from her.
Dr SL is the one to ask about this detail. Not all of it is in the public domain I understand. There was a sighting of the so called 'Stocky man' seen following a female who may have been JJ onto the path.

[killingeve]

I don't think there's enough information in the public domain to reach any sort of conclusion.

[killingeve]

And yet the person he is accused of murdering described him as "sweet":

Extracts from Jodi's diary are read out in court in which she explains her feelings for Luke.

It reads: 'I think I am actually in love with Luke, well nearly.

'Not in the stupid way I love Butch, I mean real love.

'God I think I'd die if he finished with me.' She added: 'He's just so sweet.

'No matter what he says, I believe him and that is really dangerous.

'I'll have to be careful - I've had my trust broken too many times.'

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/THE+JODI+JONES+TRIAL%3A+I+think+I%27m+actually+in+love+with+Luke..+well...-a0125381355

Anyone know who Butch is referred to above?

[killingeve]

If she was found naked, that does seem to me a further point against him.  It implies she knew and trusted the assailant.  If somebody had threatened her at knife point and told her to strip, she could have fled.

How do you know her clothes were not ripped/slashed off?  It was summer so unlikely she was wearing a lot of clothing. 

I don't see how the fact she was found naked suggests she knew and trusted the perp?

[killingeve]

No I do not but she could have been lured over the wall by cries for help or from someone pretending to be lost. She may have been attacked on the path and bundled over the wall. Her clothes were cut from her.
Dr SL is the one to ask about this detail. Not all of it is in the public domain I understand. There was a sighting of the so called 'Stocky man' seen following a female who may have been JJ onto the path.

Have you got a source for clothes being cut from her body?  Did this match her wounds?  Was it confirmed by the pathologist?

[Bubo bubo]

How do you know her clothes were not ripped/slashed off?  It was summer so unlikely she was wearing a lot of clothing. 

I don't see how the fact she was found naked suggests she knew and trusted the perp?

My understanding is that her clothes were 'cut off'. Her hands were bound behind her back using her trousers. She was all but decapitated. Her left breast was heavily incised. Watch the video with the pathologist. He is featured in the first of the two channel five programmes.

[killingeve]

My understanding is that her clothes were 'cut off'. Her hands were bound behind her back using her trousers. She was all but decapitated. Her left breast was heavily incised. Watch the video with the pathologist. He is featured in the first of the two channel five programmes.

I would like to read the pm. 

Why has Dr Lean and/or Mrs Mitchell/Luke decided not to put info in the public domain or are their hands tied in some way?  Why not set up a forum such as this one to discuss with as much case related material as possible?

I don't think its really possible to discuss/debate the case due to the lack of info.  Much of the info in the public domain appears unreliable.  Eg the following states points away from Luke but also states Jodie was sexually assaulted when I thought there was no such assault?

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/fbi-officer-who-worked-jodi-22038262

And yet here:

There was no evidence of recent sexual abuse.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

[Bubo bubo]

I would like to read the pm. 

Why has Dr Lean and/or Mrs Mitchell/Luke decided not to put info in the public domain or are their hands tied in some way?  Why not set up a forum such as this one to discuss with as much case related material as possible?

I don't think its really possible to discuss/debate the case due to the lack of info.  Much of the info in the public domain appears unreliable.  Eg the following states points away from Luke but also states Jodie was sexually assaulted when I thought there was no such assault?

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/fbi-officer-who-worked-jodi-22038262

And yet here:

There was no evidence of recent sexual abuse.


https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

There is not a wealth of material in this case. It does not have the depth of information and documentation that exists in the Bamber case. The information that we have is about all there is. At face value you have to accept the Crown's case because there is no alternative perpetrator who has not been fully checked out. The only alternative to my mind is some deranged individual who planned and executed the crime. You should search and read 'Stocky man' threads on this forum.