A Jeremy Scenario

[lookout]

There is no evidence that Nevill or June had any chance to fight back after getting shot and this is one of the facts that make JB the more likely killer because if NB is ambushed in bed, runs downstairs injured and is retreating, perhaps with the use of only one arm, this is no struggle, it's a one sided battering and execution. 

I would say a crazed Sheila could be put in the same position but you have to allow NB being downstairs to make a phone call to Jeremy and then going upstairs to get shot. Consider also that JB's hands would be tougher and less prone to marks and abrasions from say, wielding a gun like a club.

With Sheila having once or twice punched solid walls, I'd have seen no problem in her using every bit of strength if only to protect her children.
I'm saying that there would be injury marks to an assailant who would have had their back to at least one person while attacking the others. It doesn't ring true to me at all.
Why most of the bullets spent on all but one person ? And again, why the gap of at least 2 hours between having shot the parents leaving one comparatively newly shot ?

I say 2 hours because the features of the parents show loss through rigor mortis, Sheila's doesn't.

[killingeve]

With Sheila having once or twice punched solid walls, I'd have seen no problem in her using every bit of strength if only to protect her children.
I'm saying that there would be injury marks to an assailant who would have had their back to at least one person while attacking the others. It doesn't ring true to me at all.
Why most of the bullets spent on all but one person ? And again, why the gap of at least 2 hours between having shot the parents leaving one comparatively newly shot ?

I say 2 hours because the features of the parents show loss through rigor mortis, Sheila's doesn't.

Coz Bamber wanted it to look like Sheila took her own life.  He was lucky he got away with 2 for a month. 

There's no evidence any victim died later than the others.

[lookout]

Coz Bamber wanted it to look like Sheila took her own life.  He was lucky he got away with 2 for a month. 

There's no evidence any victim died later than the others.

Says you.

[Armchair Detective]

Sure, nobody is saying that Sheila wasn't somehow capable but the haloperidol, her lack of coordination, lack of interest in and experience of guns ( and particularly that gun) coupled with the relatively clean state she was found in all count against her being definitely ruled in.

I believe one of the factors in RM is age, temperature is also a factor and NB was right next to the aga. Did  the bedrooms have central heating and was it on? Most people tend to turn heating off during the night.

In the scenario of Jeremy Bamber being the killer, he doesn't need to have his back to anybody if he ambushes them in their beds.

[lookout]

Sure, nobody is saying that Sheila wasn't somehow capable but the haloperidol, her lack of coordination, lack of interest in and experience of guns ( and particularly that gun) coupled with the relatively clean state she was found in all count against her being definitely ruled in.

I believe one of the factors in RM is age, temperature is also a factor and NB was right next to the aga. Did  the bedrooms have central heating and was it on? Most people tend to turn heating off during the night.

In the scenario of Jeremy Bamber being the killer, he doesn't need to have his back to anybody if he ambushes them in their beds.





They weren't all in their beds though. Sheila's bed hadn't been slept in and because Nevill was still downstairs would have been taken unawares with Sheila wandering about. The two of them had a cup of tea in the kitchen as Sheila also had a snack.
Nevill would have had a late night due to getting the harvest in, then taking the dogs out after which he'd sit with a drink and cigarette----all passing the time before a shower downstairs in case he wakened the children and June if he'd been upstairs.

After that, no person on this earth can say what happened because none of us were there. Which is why the last man standing, JB in this case, got the blame.

[Armchair Detective]

They weren't all in their beds though. Sheila's bed hadn't been slept in and because Nevill was still downstairs would have been taken unawares with Sheila wandering about. The two of them had a cup of tea in the kitchen as Sheila also had a snack.
Nevill would have had a late night due to getting the harvest in, then taking the dogs out after which he'd sit with a drink and cigarette----all passing the time before a shower downstairs in case he wakened the children and June if he'd been upstairs.

After that, no person on this earth can say what happened because none of us were there. Which is why the last man standing, JB in this case, got the blame.

I thought Sheila's bed had looked slept in and so did Nevill's - although I never plump my pillows or make the bed after I have gotten out of it so it's hardly conclusive but other evidence suggests Sheila went to bed quite early and they did have a housekeeper to make the beds each day.

I agree though that if Sheila was the killer, she and Nevill have to be downstairs and her undigested stomach contents would suggest she maybe got up to have a snack. In my scenario, NB has either fallen asleep in his chair or hears her downstairs and gets out of bed to investigate. The only bit I have real trouble picturing is the part when Nevill decides to call JB.

[lookout]

I thought Sheila's bed had looked slept in and so did Nevill's - although I never plump my pillows or make the bed after I have gotten out of it so it's hardly conclusive but other evidence suggests Sheila went to bed quite early and they did have a housekeeper to make the beds each day.

I agree though that if Sheila was the killer, she and Nevill have to be downstairs and her undigested stomach contents would suggest she maybe got up to have a snack. In my scenario, NB has either fallen asleep in his chair or hears her downstairs and gets out of bed to investigate. The only bit I have real trouble picturing is the part when Nevill decides to call JB.

Going to bed is one thing but actually going to sleep is another. Did Sheila sleep ? We don't know, nobody does. Sheila may have just lain on top of the bed as her sleeping habits were hit and miss.
Then again, Sheila could have got into bed with her mother because Nevill's slippers were partly under Sheila's bed. He could well have just lain on top rather than wake June who was another light-sleeper.

 

[Armchair Detective]

Going to bed is one thing but actually going to sleep is another. Did Sheila sleep ? We don't know, nobody does. Sheila may have just lain on top of the bed as her sleeping habits were hit and miss.
Then again, Sheila could have got into bed with her mother because Nevill's slippers were partly under Sheila's bed. He could well have just lain on top rather than wake June who was another light-sleeper.

These are all things we are unlikely to ever know but I suppose it is possible that Sheila lays awake, brooding over the dinner time talk of foster carers and working herself into a state.

Interestingly, and I haven't seen Theroux's film myself, but I heard Barbara Wilson recently gave some support to JB's claim that Nevill and June had been discussing foster care as a possible means of helping Sheila see more of her boys.

I'm not aware of BW ever expressing this before and I'm not sure how reliable her memory can be after all this time but it is interesting and those who have previously dismissed JB's account because Colin would not have allowed it, including myself, should maybe have some pause for thought here and also consider that regardless of Colin's views, June and Nevill may well have stuck their noses in out of genuine concern and rather than see that this was well intentioned, Sheila may have heard the word "fostering" and gone down a dark path.

[Jane]

These are all things we are unlikely to ever know but I suppose it is possible that Sheila lays awake, brooding over the dinner time talk of foster carers and working herself into a state.

Interestingly, and I haven't seen Theroux's film myself, but I heard Barbara Wilson recently gave some support to JB's claim that Nevill and June had been discussing foster care as a possible means of helping Sheila see more of her boys.

I'm not aware of BW ever expressing this before and I'm not sure how reliable her memory can be after all this time but it is interesting and those who have previously dismissed JB's account because Colin would not have allowed it, including myself, should maybe have some pause for thought here and also consider that regardless of Colin's views, June and Nevill may well have stuck their noses in out of genuine concern and rather than see that this was well intentioned, Sheila may have heard the word "fostering" and gone down a dark path.

I don't believe BW can, in any way, be considered reliable. In the immediacy of the shootings, she, allegedly said JB was polite and better to her than her own son. Further down the road, she claimed to have been scared of him. There is also the point that the Bambers, by now, would be in their mid 90's. I doubt BW is very much younger. How good is her recall?

[guest29835]

It is strange that people try to complicate a straight forward scenario that matches the evidence.

QC has Nevill sleeping downstairs & fighting Bamber upon entrance.

No I do not.  That is not the scenario.

I have Nevill downstairs - not asleep - and Jeremy does not struggle with him. 

[Armchair Detective]

I don't believe BW can, in any way, be considered reliable. In the immediacy of the shootings, she, allegedly said JB was polite and better to her than her own son. Further down the road, she claimed to have been scared of him. There is also the point that the Bambers, by now, would be in their mid 90's. I doubt BW is very much younger. How good is her recall?

Yes, if she had mentioned this in 1985 it would mean a lot more but nevertheless, it gave me pause to reflect on whether such a conversation could have taken place.

Dr Julia Shaw says that our memories are not like a video we can rewind and replay, they are more like a wikipedia page that we can go in and edit - and other people can edit them too.

[Munksa]

I thought Sheila's bed had looked slept in and so did Nevill's - although I never plump my pillows or make the bed after I have gotten out of it so it's hardly conclusive but other evidence suggests Sheila went to bed quite early and they did have a housekeeper to make the beds each day.



That's a (Sheila's) slept bed, the one on the left now thats not slept/unused. Clear pillow indentation, bedspread and cover turned, gathering of sheet near the side of the pillow.  We can't ignore photographic evidence. This actually originates from Scott Lomax in my opinion. He said Sheila was wondering around and did not sleep at all that night, an astonishing claim, I asked him how he would know this, his answer was the bed was unslept/made. Hmmmm I wouldn't call that a made bed.

[Steve_uk]

I don't believe BW can, in any way, be considered reliable. In the immediacy of the shootings, she, allegedly said JB was polite and better to her than her own son. Further down the road, she claimed to have been scared of him. There is also the point that the Bambers, by now, would be in their mid 90's. I doubt BW is very much younger. How good is her recall?

But she did testify on oath. If one considers that Barbara was an employee of N&J Bamber and Jeremy became her employer, albeit for only a short period, it might well explain why she tried at the time to accommodate herself to the situation.

[Jane]

But she did testify on oath. If one considers that Barbara was an employee of N&J Bamber and Jeremy became her employer, albeit for only a short period, it might well explain why she tried at the time to accommodate herself to the situation.

I'm inclined to go along with that, Steve. The first statement MAY have been made out of fears of reprisal. By the time she made the second statement, the danger had been removed.

[Armchair Detective]

That's a (Sheila's) slept bed, the one on the left now thats not slept/unused. Clear pillow indentation, bedspread and cover turned, gathering of sheet near the side of the pillow.  We can't ignore photographic evidence. This actually originates from Scott Lomax in my opinion. He said Sheila was wondering around and did not sleep at all that night, an astonishing claim, I asked him how he would know this, his answer was the bed was unslept/made. Hmmmm I wouldn't call that a made bed.

Scott Lomax is a terrible writer with little ability to be objective and paper thin skin in my opinion. There is/was a review of his book on amazon where someone has offered the opinion that his views come across as misogynistic and he makes a proper fool of himself by threatening to sue!  He deleted his twitter account around the time of the ITV drama because people kept pointing out all of the factual errors in his book.

There is an article online where he claims that NB didn't receive any injuries apart from gunshots and I think he was the origin of the rabbit's blood nonsense as well. With all these clowns,  JB appears to be running a circus.