Author Topic: A Jeremy Scenario  (Read 18438 times)

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guest29835

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #360 on: January 04, 2022, 05:07:PM »
Sorry for the confusion QC, I could have worded that better, I know you didn't mean they had bent down and picked them up with their hands, here:

To explain the casings you now have experienced SOCO's or TFG unwittingly picking up casings on the soles of their boots and all four of them get walked upstairs and deposited again in the bedroom.No officers trained to be observant in a crime scene notice that they are disappearing/reappearing . None dislodge from the boots ?on the stairs or in any other rooms and the casings in the boys room remain undisturbed, (perhaps they were more careful in there) - why didn't the clumsy oafs walk in the blood too? Sorry but I'm not buying it, it was the SIO that was unprofessional with his assumptions, the rest made some mistakes but knew enough to be careful in a crime scene.

Here's a thought though, why not have JB move some of the casings to make it look like Nevill went to June's aid? 

I do agree that  if NB doesn't go upstairs  it solves some minor problems but in doing so, you create new ones that require just as much head scratching and supposition.

Adam's scenario is essentially the one the police believed the most likely but to save arguing about the unknowable, how about I just put your theory in the maybe pile along with all the others. :)

I have not created a new problem.  I've not pulled something out of a Bizarro parallel dimension.  All I have done is given you a very ordinary, down-to-earth resolution for problems in the evidence. 

First, you mention nothing about the idea that the casings could have been ejected out on to the landing when fired.  This would explain it all.  The casings are tiny.  They could then easily end up moved, kicked around and so on, especially towards the main bedroom, which was a focal point for officers.  If you doubt this phenomenon in general, then tell us where the missing cartridge case is from the kitchen.  Clearly it has been moved somewhere, I would say probably by accident.  The casings are important to the crime evidence, obviously, and their position should be taken account of.  I don't say we should ignore where they are found, I only say that we should not rely on where they are found, as that's only where they are found at a particular point, so it would be foolish to do so.

You ask why didn't the "clumsy oafs" (your expression) walk in the blood.  My answer is that they undoubtedly did.  They had no choice.  They weren't clumsy oafs at all.  They had arrived at a potential armed hostage situation and they had go in and find Sheila and rescue or locate the others.

You ask why the casings were not dislodged on the stairs or elsewhere, but I did not say anything to the contrary.  As just mentioned, they may have been ejected out on to the landing from the rifle, when fired.  It is also possible that at least one casing was collected in the treads of somebody's boot, either on the landing or earlier along the footfall flow between the kitchen and the main bedroom, where officers would have stopped to examine the two bodies. 

I do not say that this means the officers were unprofessional or incompetent.  They may have been in other respects and I may advance that view, but my post about the casings doesn't rest on this.  I simply state as a cool matter of fact that evidence would inevitably have been compromised at the scene as a result of the police operation, and this would have been next-to-unavoidable.

I strongly doubt Jeremy would be messing around picking casings up.

Offline lookout

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #361 on: January 04, 2022, 05:13:PM »
Why would anyone not have bothered where they trod ? The place wasn't cordoned off as in a crime scene so all and sundry were clodhopping in all over the place. What a shambles of an investigation ! Contamination galore-----then a month later the place was fingerprinted  ::) Arse about face or what ?

Offline Jane

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #362 on: January 04, 2022, 05:23:PM »
Why would anyone not have bothered where they trod ? The place wasn't cordoned off as in a crime scene so all and sundry were clodhopping in all over the place. What a shambles of an investigation ! Contamination galore-----then a month later the place was fingerprinted  ::) Arse about face or what ?

Murder/suicide. Culprit dead. Why were fingerprints necessary? Murder/murder? Whole different ball game.

Offline Adam

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #363 on: January 04, 2022, 05:29:PM »
I have not created a new problem.  I've not pulled something out of a Bizarro parallel dimension.  All I have done is given you a very ordinary, down-to-earth resolution for problems in the evidence. 

First, you mention nothing about the idea that the casings could have been ejected out on to the landing when fired.  This would explain it all.  The casings are tiny.  They could then easily end up moved, kicked around and so on, especially towards the main bedroom, which was a focal point for officers.  If you doubt this phenomenon in general, then tell us where the missing cartridge case is from the kitchen.  Clearly it has been moved somewhere, I would say probably by accident.  The casings are important to the crime evidence, obviously, and their position should be taken account of.  I don't say we should ignore where they are found, I only say that we should not rely on where they are found, as that's only where they are found at a particular point, so it would be foolish to do so.

You ask why didn't the "clumsy oafs" (your expression) walk in the blood.  My answer is that they undoubtedly did.  They had no choice.  They weren't clumsy oafs at all.  They had arrived at a potential armed hostage situation and they had go in and find Sheila and rescue or locate the others.

You ask why the casings were not dislodged on the stairs or elsewhere, but I did not say anything to the contrary.  As just mentioned, they may have been ejected out on to the landing from the rifle, when fired.  It is also possible that at least one casing was collected in the treads of somebody's boot, either on the landing or earlier along the footfall flow between the kitchen and the main bedroom, where officers would have stopped to examine the two bodies. 

I do not say that this means the officers were unprofessional or incompetent.  They may have been in other respects and I may advance that view, but my post about the casings doesn't rest on this.  I simply state as a cool matter of fact that evidence would inevitably have been compromised at the scene as a result of the police operation, and this would have been next-to-unavoidable.

I strongly doubt Jeremy would be messing around picking casings up.

Agree with that.

However you are saying Nevill was shot 8 times in the kitchen.

There is no way the police could accidentially put 4 of those casings upstairs in another room.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #364 on: January 04, 2022, 07:13:PM »
Murder/suicide. Culprit dead. Why were fingerprints necessary? Murder/murder? Whole different ball game.






A bit late in the day after the world and its wife had trampled through.

Offline Rob_

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #365 on: January 04, 2022, 08:45:PM »
Why was Sheila's face different from that of her parents when they were allegedly all killed at the same time ? Facial muscles are the first affected during RM as they're not heavy like the rest of the body as there's a stark difference in appearance, no sign whatsoever of RM in Sheila's face ! It takes less than 2 hours to be noticeable.

I discovered this only recently by chance Lookout, the face of a deceased person takes on a grimace usually around two hours after passing. Bird took the photographs something like 7 or 8 hours after the estimated time of death, would be even longer if JB staged the scene and the crime was committed earlier?

Could it have been the appearance of Sheila that convinced Harris and the other officers it was suicide?

Offline lookout

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #366 on: January 04, 2022, 08:54:PM »
I discovered this only recently by chance Lookout, the face of a deceased person takes on a grimace usually around two hours after passing. Bird took the photographs something like 7 or 8 hours after the estimated time of death, would be even longer if JB staged the scene and the crime was committed earlier?

Could it have been the appearance of Sheila that convinced Harris and the other officers it was suicide?






I would have thought by just looking and seeing the differences in the facial structures between the three adults that it would have been enough to have said that Sheila had died at least 2 hours later than the others.
Muscles in the face are small so are quicker for RM to show. Having seen dead people I'd have gathered straight away. The face sinks as do the eyes and if you see the pic of June lying on the floor you'd see. June had a " filled " face normally, meaning that she wasn't a thin person with a drawn face. Nevill of course I didn't see but the outline of his body showed me also that he'd died long before Sheila.

Offline Rob_

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #367 on: January 04, 2022, 09:05:PM »





I would have thought by just looking and seeing the differences in the facial structures between the three adults that it would have been enough to have said that Sheila had died at least 2 hours later than the others.
Muscles in the face are small so are quicker for RM to show. Having seen dead people I'd have gathered straight away. The face sinks as do the eyes and if you see the pic of June lying on the floor you'd see. June had a " filled " face normally, meaning that she wasn't a thin person with a drawn face. Nevill of course I didn't see but the outline of his body showed me also that he'd died long before Sheila.


I agree Lookout, but I always thought that RM was much slower, well it is for the bigger muscles.

Surely PV would have noticed?

Offline lookout

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #368 on: January 04, 2022, 09:15:PM »

I agree Lookout, but I always thought that RM was much slower, well it is for the bigger muscles.

Surely PV would have noticed?





PV should have noticed lots of things but didn't.

Offline Rob_

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #369 on: January 04, 2022, 09:18:PM »




PV should have noticed lots of things but didn't.

I assume he did look at the crime scene photos? as by the time the autopsy was done RM would be well under way?

Offline Munksa

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #370 on: January 04, 2022, 09:21:PM »


PV should have noticed lots of things but didn't.

Shame Lookout you were not the Pathologist 😁, damn!

Offline lookout

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #371 on: January 04, 2022, 09:28:PM »
Shame Lookout you were not the Pathologist 😁, damn!





Shouldn't you be packing ?

Offline Munksa

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #372 on: January 04, 2022, 09:48:PM »

Shouldn't you be packing ?

No I said  I am back to work tomorrow, then I fly next week.

Offline Armchair Detective

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Re: A Jeremy Scenario
« Reply #373 on: January 04, 2022, 10:07:PM »





I would have thought by just looking and seeing the differences in the facial structures between the three adults that it would have been enough to have said that Sheila had died at least 2 hours later than the others.
Muscles in the face are small so are quicker for RM to show. Having seen dead people I'd have gathered straight away. The face sinks as do the eyes and if you see the pic of June lying on the floor you'd see. June had a " filled " face normally, meaning that she wasn't a thin person with a drawn face. Nevill of course I didn't see but the outline of his body showed me also that he'd died long before Sheila.

There is no arguing with that!
"When ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything, just let them talk" - Barack Obama