A Jeremy Scenario

[lookout]

If I had been defending, I would have put the jury members all on cycles in the middle of the night with no lights and see how they got on. The verdict would be 12:0 instead of 10:2!

After hours spent working !

[Rob_]

After hours spent working !

A bit of overtime helps Lookout

[Armchair Detective]

The prosecution's case had to be he cycled there and back, because the times don't allow for any other option.

Why would he use Junes bike? if he used a bike the last one he would use is Junes.

Not really. Only if the time of the alleged call placed from WHF to Bourtree Cottage could be proved do timings either on foot or bike become crucial and the only evidence of that call happening is the word of JB.  It was posited that he had used his mother's bike because it was at Goldhanger with mud on the tyres but I think it more likely he went on foot.

[Rob_]

Not really. Only if the time of the alleged call placed from WHF to Bourtree Cottage could be proved do timings either on foot or bike become crucial and the only evidence of that call happening is the word of JB.  It was posited that he had used his mother's bike because it was at Goldhanger with mud on the tyres but I think it more likely he went on foot.

We were talking about the situation where JB believed the Police could trace the calls somehow and JB felt he had to fake the calls. Not the situation where JB just lies about the calls etc.

[guest29835]

A bit of overtime helps Lookout

Well Jeremy did advertise the murders ahead of time, Rob.  It would have been a bit rude of him not to turn up. 

Anyway, Ainsley says 15 minutes by bike using the Brook House Farm route (return only).  DI Wilkinson completed the test ride in 16 minutes, but that was by day.

It's worth emphasising that at roughly 2.30 a.m. on the 7th., you would probably just be coming into astronomical twilight, which means it would still be dark, albeit with the benefit of moonlight since it was between a full and three-quarter moon on 7th. August 1985, and I would calculate roughly 65% lunar illumination.

In plain language: you'd still need lights on your bike when going along, unless you don't mind crashing into potholes, pedestrians, anything.  And it would take him longer than 15 or 16 minutes, for a few different reasons:

(i). if he is riding without lights, then please at least double the time estimate;
(ii). it's dark anyway, so even with lights, it will take longer along farm tracks;
(iii). it's been raining, thundering and lightning, just before this happened, so the tracks will be muddy;
(iv). it may take him some time to get into Goldhanger and reach the cottage itself, as he must be cautious and not be seen.  Even if he is disguised, a probable retroactive identification is still possible.  "Oh yes, I saw somebody on a ladies bike at that time, cycling down Maldon Road he was.  Yes, his face was covered, dressed all in black, no lights on, and he stooped as if he not to want to be seen.  Thought it was strange."

[lookout]

It was a heavy " sit-up and beg " bicycle not your racing bike.

[Adam]

Well Jeremy did advertise the murders ahead of time, Rob.  It would have been a bit rude of him not to turn up. 

Anyway, Ainsley says 15 minutes by bike using the Brook House Farm route (return only).  DI Wilkinson completed the test ride in 16 minutes, but that was by day.

It's worth emphasising that at roughly 2.30 a.m. on the 7th., you would probably just be coming into astronomical twilight, which means it would still be dark, albeit with the benefit of moonlight since it was between a full and three-quarter moon on 7th. August 1985, and I would calculate roughly 65% lunar illumination.

In plain language: you'd still need lights on your bike when going along, unless you don't mind crashing into potholes, pedestrians, anything.  And it would take him longer than 15 or 16 minutes, for a few different reasons:

(i). if he is riding without lights, then please at least double the time estimate;
(ii). it's dark anyway, so even with lights, it will take longer along farm tracks;
(iii). it's been raining, thundering and lightning, just before this happened, so the tracks will be muddy;
(iv). it may take him some time to get into Goldhanger and reach the cottage itself, as he must be cautious and not be seen.  Even if he is disguised, a probable retroactive identification is still possible.  "Oh yes, I saw somebody on a ladies bike at that time, cycling down Maldon Road he was.  Yes, his face was covered, dressed all in black, no lights on, and he stooped as if he not to want to be seen.  Thought it was strange."

No. Bamber knew the way. He lived & worked at both properties virtually all his life.

[Adam]

Well Jeremy did advertise the murders ahead of time, Rob.  It would have been a bit rude of him not to turn up. 

Anyway, Ainsley says 15 minutes by bike using the Brook House Farm route (return only).  DI Wilkinson completed the test ride in 16 minutes, but that was by day.

It's worth emphasising that at roughly 2.30 a.m. on the 7th., you would probably just be coming into astronomical twilight, which means it would still be dark, albeit with the benefit of moonlight since it was between a full and three-quarter moon on 7th. August 1985, and I would calculate roughly 65% lunar illumination.

In plain language: you'd still need lights on your bike when going along, unless you don't mind crashing into potholes, pedestrians, anything.  And it would take him longer than 15 or 16 minutes, for a few different reasons:

(i). if he is riding without lights, then please at least double the time estimate;
(ii). it's dark anyway, so even with lights, it will take longer along farm tracks;
(iii). it's been raining, thundering and lightning, just before this happened, so the tracks will be muddy;
(iv). it may take him some time to get into Goldhanger and reach the cottage itself, as he must be cautious and not be seen.  Even if he is disguised, a probable retroactive identification is still possible.  "Oh yes, I saw somebody on a ladies bike at that time, cycling down Maldon Road he was.  Yes, his face was covered, dressed all in black, no lights on, and he stooped as if he not to want to be seen.  Thought it was strange."

I don't understand. The police timed it at 15 minutes.

[Adam]

Well Jeremy did advertise the murders ahead of time, Rob.  It would have been a bit rude of him not to turn up. 

Anyway, Ainsley says 15 minutes by bike using the Brook House Farm route (return only).  DI Wilkinson completed the test ride in 16 minutes, but that was by day.

It's worth emphasising that at roughly 2.30 a.m. on the 7th., you would probably just be coming into astronomical twilight, which means it would still be dark, albeit with the benefit of moonlight since it was between a full and three-quarter moon on 7th. August 1985, and I would calculate roughly 65% lunar illumination.

In plain language: you'd still need lights on your bike when going along, unless you don't mind crashing into potholes, pedestrians, anything.  And it would take him longer than 15 or 16 minutes, for a few different reasons:

(i). if he is riding without lights, then please at least double the time estimate;
(ii). it's dark anyway, so even with lights, it will take longer along farm tracks;
(iii). it's been raining, thundering and lightning, just before this happened, so the tracks will be muddy;
(iv). it may take him some time to get into Goldhanger and reach the cottage itself, as he must be cautious and not be seen.  Even if he is disguised, a probable retroactive identification is still possible.  "Oh yes, I saw somebody on a ladies bike at that time, cycling down Maldon Road he was.  Yes, his face was covered, dressed all in black, no lights on, and he stooped as if he not to want to be seen.  Thought it was strange."

Source please.

[Adam]

Well Jeremy did advertise the murders ahead of time, Rob.  It would have been a bit rude of him not to turn up. 

Anyway, Ainsley says 15 minutes by bike using the Brook House Farm route (return only).  DI Wilkinson completed the test ride in 16 minutes, but that was by day.

It's worth emphasising that at roughly 2.30 a.m. on the 7th., you would probably just be coming into astronomical twilight, which means it would still be dark, albeit with the benefit of moonlight since it was between a full and three-quarter moon on 7th. August 1985, and I would calculate roughly 65% lunar illumination.

In plain language: you'd still need lights on your bike when going along, unless you don't mind crashing into potholes, pedestrians, anything.  And it would take him longer than 15 or 16 minutes, for a few different reasons:

(i). if he is riding without lights, then please at least double the time estimate;
(ii). it's dark anyway, so even with lights, it will take longer along farm tracks;
(iii). it's been raining, thundering and lightning, just before this happened, so the tracks will be muddy;
(iv). it may take him some time to get into Goldhanger and reach the cottage itself, as he must be cautious and not be seen. Even if he is disguised, a probable retroactive identification is still possible.  "Oh yes, I saw somebody on a ladies bike at that time, cycling down Maldon Road he was.  Yes, his face was covered, dressed all in black, no lights on, and he stooped as if he not to want to be seen.  Thought it was strange."

Jeremy checked.

It was Worzel Gummidge's night off.

[lookout]

The phones at WHF were struck by lightening ! Don't you follow the case Adam ?

[Adam]

If I had been defending, I would have put the jury members all on cycles in the middle of the night with no lights and see how they got on. The verdict would be 12:0 instead of 10:2!

The foot & cycle paths are so accessible, they even have benches.

Did I mention Bamber had spent over 15 years living & working at both & in between both properties.

[Adam]

Julie swears blind that she saw the bike at the cottage on the preceding Sunday, 4th.  Doesn't that undermine somewhat the prosecution case you put here?

So before the massacre.

He cycled there & back.

Why would he walk there?

[Adam]

The phones at WHF were struck by lightening ! Don't you follow the case Adam ?

Lookout making things up again.

[Adam]

Not really. Only if the time of the alleged call placed from WHF to Bourtree Cottage could be proved do timings either on foot or bike become crucial and the only evidence of that call happening is the word of JB.  It was posited that he had used his mother's bike because it was at Goldhanger with mud on the tyres but I think it more likely he went on foot.

Why?

Julie's WS said he planned to cycle & brought the bike over before the massacre.