A Jeremy Scenario

[Adam]

Adam and I went over this in a 2020 thread and I remember clearly remarking on how dogmatic Adam is about the bicycle.  He even insists that Jeremy went to the farmhouse by bicycle when the police have Jeremy going on foot, same as I suggest.

It's clear why Adam is so keen on June's bike being a factor in this.  He knows that without that bike, the case against Jeremy Bamber collapses.

Do they?

Bamber took June's bike back to his cottage before the massacre.

[Rob_]

Adam and I went over this in a 2020 thread and I remember clearly remarking on how dogmatic Adam is about the bicycle.  He even insists that Jeremy went to the farmhouse by bicycle when the police have Jeremy going on foot, same as I suggest.

It's clear why Adam is so keen on June's bike being a factor in this.  He knows that without that bike, the case against Jeremy Bamber collapses.

Yes thanks QC I think I also asked Adam the same question, if JB is on foot it cannot be him!

[Adam]

That is what the evidence shows. Unless Bamber went downstairs to re load & was followed.

Not sure what else Bamber was going to do when Nevill headed for the exit.

Bamber was out of bullets & Nevill was 6.4 & 15 stone. Bamber would be wanting to avoid a confrontation & possible injuries. He would be hopeing Nevill collapsed.

Nevill didn't collapse & a violent fight took place downstairs.

[Adam]

Yes thanks QC I think I also asked Adam the same question, if JB is on foot it cannot be him!

The prosecution case is he cycled there and back.

June's bike was stolen/taken before the massacre.

[Rob_]

Not sure what else Bamber was going to do when Nevill headed for the exit.

Bamber was out of bullets & Nevill was 6.4 & 15 stone. Bamber would be wanting to avoid a confrontation & possible injuries. He would be hopeing Nevill collapsed.

Nevill didn't collapse & a violent fight happened.

Nevil would not run past JB Adam, and also JB would not have allowed him to, because Nevil only needed a second to dial 999 once downstairs.

[Adam]

Not sure what else Bamber was going to do when Nevill headed for the exit.

Bamber was out of bullets & Nevill was 6.4 & 15 stone. Bamber would be wanting to avoid a confrontation & possible injuries. He would be hopeing Nevill collapsed.

Nevill didn't collapse & a violent fight took place downstairs.

Unless Bamber went downstairs to re load & was followed by Nevill.

Less likely in my opinion.

[Adam]

Nevil would not run past JB Adam, and also JB would not have allowed him to, because Nevil only needed a second to dial 999 once downstairs.

The evidence & successful prosecution case is -

Nevill was shot 4 times upstairs.

Nevill went downstairs. Either chased by or followed Bamber.

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But feel free to say what Bamber & Nevill would or wouldn't do. In a situation you have never been in.

[Rob_]

The prosecution case is he cycled there and back.

June's bike was stolen/taken before the massacre.

The prosecution's case had to be he cycled there and back, because the times don't allow for any other option.

Why would he use Junes bike? if he used a bike the last one he would use is Junes.

[Adam]

The prosecution's case had to be he cycled there and back, because the times don't allow for any other option.

Why would he use Junes bike? if he used a bike the last one he would use is Junes.

Whose bike?

[Adam]

The prosecution's case had to be he cycled there and back, because the times don't allow for any other option.

Why would he use Junes bike? if he used a bike the last one he would use is Junes.

It's lucky they have supporting evidence.

[Rob_]

The evidence & successful prosecution case is -

Nevill was shot 4 times upstairs.

Nevill went downstairs. Either chased by or followed Bamber.

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But feel free to say what Bamber & Nevill would or wouldn't do. In a situation you have never been in.

JB could not let Nevil get to the phone, it's one reason I struggle with your scenario.

[Rob_]

It's lucky they have supporting evidence.

If I had been defending, I would have put the jury members all on cycles in the middle of the night with no lights and see how they got on. The verdict would be 12:0 instead of 10:2!

[guest29835]

Do they?

Bamber took June's bike back to his cottage before the massacre.

The official police theory, as set out in Mike Ainsley's submission to the DPP in 1985, is that Jeremy went on foot and used the bicycle on the return leg. 

It may be that he also had the bike at the cottage earlier than the incident, but wouldn't that lend weight to his own story and his innocence?   You seem to be backing up Jeremy on this point.  Thanks Adam. 

[Roch]

If I had been defending, I would have put the jury members all on cycles in the middle of the night with no lights and see how they got on. The verdict would be 12:0 instead of 10:2!

Spot on.

[guest29835]

The prosecution case is he cycled there and back.

June's bike was stolen/taken before the massacre.

Julie swears blind that she saw the bike at the cottage on the preceding Sunday, 4th.  Doesn't that undermine somewhat the prosecution case you put here?