Time scale of massacre:

[Adam]

Yes I agree with this.

It is strange how supporters get so excited by -

Bamber using a silencer in a silent massacre attack.

Bamber putting the silencer back in it's usual place afterwards.

[Adam]

She was also a ticking time bomb ready to go off, considering what she had to contend with during the short years of her life. End of the tether it's called.

In her nightie & bare footed.

[Adam]

What is the strongest evidence a silencer was used Adam? because I have not seen any evidence that proves one was used but maybe I have missed it?

If I was using a gun with a silencer I would assume it would be obvious to the Police so the last thing I would do would be to hide the silencer away.

Sheila's blood and the aga scratches.

[Rob_]

I wish the Jeremy supporters would understand the fragile nature of Sheila towards the end of her life: uncertain, unconfident, puffing nervously on cigars and avoiding eye contact, forgetful in personal hygiene matters including body odour and the timing of her period, unable to drive, dependant on her mother's food parcels, unable without supreme effort to walk properly due to medicinal side-effects.

She was a sitting duck for Jeremy and he knew it.

Thanks for this Steve but this seems at odds with Sheila skipping down Pages lane the day before? Or have I got this wrong?

[lookout]

In her nightie & bare footed.

No---fully dressed.

[Adam]

Thanks for this Steve but this seems at odds with Sheila skipping down Pages lane the day before? Or have I got this wrong?

Skipping?

[Rob_]

Sheila's blood and the aga scratches.

Obviously not evidence founds days latter and may be dubious Adam, from the wounds was what I was referring to.

[guest29835]

I agree this would have been far more likely had Sheila been the killer. I think Jeremy was worried that Anthony Pargeter would realize a silencer was missing, given that they had both been shooting together outside the previous weekend.

That was Anthony's visit on the 26th. July 1985.  The rifle could not easily fit into the gun cupboard with the silencer attached to it.  I make the point here: https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.0.html

The gun cupboard ordinarily had lots of stuff in it: boxes, ammunition, other guns, and what not.  The rifle would not be naturally positioned like it is in the photograph.  It is a contrived photograph taken by the police to prove a point because Jeremy had averred that he would have taken off the silencer when stowing away the rifle.  Surely you can concede that Jeremy at least has a point in this regard?

I am not saying that Anthony Pargeter lied in his statement.  I think it is more likely that he has misremembered what he examined on the 26th. July when giving his statement to police in August.  It's an easy mistake to make.  In any event, to be clear, I am doubtful that Anthony Pargeter ever saw a silencer on that rifle.

I accept this does not answer your point completely.  Even if Anthony Pargeter never saw the silencer, Jeremy could still have been concerned that the silencer would be missed.  But if Jeremy had the presence of mind to realise that Sheila could not reach the trigger of the silenced rifle (actually, she could with her toe, but that's perhaps beside the point), wouldn't he also have had the presence of mind not to allow family members to have the key to the farmhouse with the silencer still there?  Wouldn't he have arranged disposal of the weapons himself?

Furthermore, if Jeremy disposed of the silencer in the gun cupboard while carrying out the crime, why was no blood found on the den carpet or in the gun cupboard, other than on the silencer itself?

This is before we get into the whole question of whether the silencer was used at all.  After the 2011/12 CCRC rejection, new expert ballistic evidence was obtained that suggests a silencer was not used in the killings.  I also wonder how Fletcher's pull-through test could reveal no blood in the rifle barrel if the silencer was supposedly used to fire contact shots before Sheila was killed?  Simple gravity would dictate that there should be blood in the rifle barrel. 

[Adam]

Obviously not evidence founds days latter and may be dubious Adam, from the wounds was what I was referring to.

Well it was put to the police, DPP, jury & appeal courts.

[Adam]

No---fully dressed.

She changed into her nightie afterwards.

[Adam]

That was Anthony's visit on the 26th. July 1985.  The rifle could not easily fit into the gun cupboard with the silencer attached to it.  I make the point here: https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.0.html

The gun cupboard ordinarily had lots of stuff in it: boxes, ammunition, other guns, and what not.  The rifle would not be naturally positioned like it is in the photograph.  It is a contrived photograph taken by the police to prove a point because Jeremy had averred that he would have taken off the silencer when stowing away the rifle.  Surely you can concede that Jeremy at least has a point in this regard?

I am not saying that Anthony Pargeter lied in his statement.  I think it is more likely that he has misremembered what he examined on the 26th. July when giving his statement to police in August.  It's an easy mistake to make.  In any event, to be clear, I am doubtful that Anthony Pargeter ever saw a silencer on that rifle.

I accept this does not answer your point completely.  Even if Anthony Pargeter never saw the silencer, Jeremy could still have been concerned that the silencer would be missed.  But if Jeremy had the presence of mind to realise that Sheila could not reach the trigger of the silenced rifle (actually, she could with her toe, but that's perhaps beside the point), wouldn't he also have had the presence of mind not to allow family members to have the key to the farmhouse with the silencer still there?  Wouldn't he have arranged disposal of the weapons himself?

Furthermore, if Jeremy disposed of the silencer in the gun cupboard while carrying out the crime, why was no blood found on the den carpet or in the gun cupboard, other than on the silencer itself?

This is before we get into the whole question of whether the silencer was used at all.  After the 2011/12 CCRC rejection, new expert ballistic evidence was obtained that suggests a silencer was not used in the killings.  I also wonder how Fletcher's pull-through test could reveal no blood in the rifle barrel if the silencer was supposedly used to fire contact shots before Sheila was killed?  Simple gravity would dictate that there should be blood in the rifle barrel.

The police gave AE the keys. SJ asked her to do a clear up. Bamber was on a jolly up.

Doubtful Bamber knew about back spatter & doubtful he realised the silencer had scratched the aga.

[Adam]

That was Anthony's visit on the 26th. July 1985.  The rifle could not easily fit into the gun cupboard with the silencer attached to it.  I make the point here: https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.0.html

The gun cupboard ordinarily had lots of stuff in it: boxes, ammunition, other guns, and what not.  The rifle would not be naturally positioned like it is in the photograph.  It is a contrived photograph taken by the police to prove a point because Jeremy had averred that he would have taken off the silencer when stowing away the rifle.  Surely you can concede that Jeremy at least has a point in this regard?

I am not saying that Anthony Pargeter lied in his statement.  I think it is more likely that he has misremembered what he examined on the 26th. July when giving his statement to police in August.  It's an easy mistake to make.  In any event, to be clear, I am doubtful that Anthony Pargeter ever saw a silencer on that rifle.

I accept this does not answer your point completely.  Even if Anthony Pargeter never saw the silencer, Jeremy could still have been concerned that the silencer would be missed.  But if Jeremy had the presence of mind to realise that Sheila could not reach the trigger of the silenced rifle (actually, she could with her toe, but that's perhaps beside the point), wouldn't he also have had the presence of mind not to allow family members to have the key to the farmhouse with the silencer still there?  Wouldn't he have arranged disposal of the weapons himself?

Furthermore, if Jeremy disposed of the silencer in the gun cupboard while carrying out the crime, why was no blood found on the den carpet or in the gun cupboard, other than on the silencer itself?

This is before we get into the whole question of whether the silencer was used at all.  After the 2011/12 CCRC rejection, new expert ballistic evidence was obtained that suggests a silencer was not used in the killings.  I also wonder how Fletcher's pull-through test could reveal no blood in the rifle barrel if the silencer was supposedly used to fire contact shots before Sheila was killed?  Simple gravity would dictate that there should be blood in the rifle barrel.

What blood? Bamber was not bleeding.

[Adam]

That was Anthony's visit on the 26th. July 1985.  The rifle could not easily fit into the gun cupboard with the silencer attached to it.  I make the point here: https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10382.0.html

The gun cupboard ordinarily had lots of stuff in it: boxes, ammunition, other guns, and what not.  The rifle would not be naturally positioned like it is in the photograph.  It is a contrived photograph taken by the police to prove a point because Jeremy had averred that he would have taken off the silencer when stowing away the rifle.  Surely you can concede that Jeremy at least has a point in this regard?

I am not saying that Anthony Pargeter lied in his statement.  I think it is more likely that he has misremembered what he examined on the 26th. July when giving his statement to police in August.  It's an easy mistake to make.  In any event, to be clear, I am doubtful that Anthony Pargeter ever saw a silencer on that rifle.

I accept this does not answer your point completely.  Even if Anthony Pargeter never saw the silencer, Jeremy could still have been concerned that the silencer would be missed.  But if Jeremy had the presence of mind to realise that Sheila could not reach the trigger of the silenced rifle (actually, she could with her toe, but that's perhaps beside the point), wouldn't he also have had the presence of mind not to allow family members to have the key to the farmhouse with the silencer still there?  Wouldn't he have arranged disposal of the weapons himself?

Furthermore, if Jeremy disposed of the silencer in the gun cupboard while carrying out the crime, why was no blood found on the den carpet or in the gun cupboard, other than on the silencer itself?

This is before we get into the whole question of whether the silencer was used at all.  After the 2011/12 CCRC rejection, new expert ballistic evidence was obtained that suggests a silencer was not used in the killings. I also wonder how Fletcher's pull-through test could reveal no blood in the rifle barrel if the silencer was supposedly used to fire contact shots before Sheila was killed?  Simple gravity would dictate that there should be blood in the rifle barrel.

The evidence shows it was.

What tests?

[Adam]

The police gave AE the keys. SJ asked her to do a clear up. Bamber was on a jolly up.

Doubtful Bamber knew about back spatter & doubtful he realised the silencer had scratched the aga.

And doubtful Bamber thought the relatives were suspicious or would be given access. AE had been supporting Bamber.

[Rob_]

I agree this would have been far more likely had Sheila been the killer. I think Jeremy was worried that Anthony Pargeter would realize a silencer was missing, given that they had both been shooting together outside the previous weekend.

But all JB had to do was leave the silencer beside Sheila Steve? I am not suggesting he take it with him away from the crime scene, where it may have been noticed that it was missing?