The Silenced Rifle Did Not Fit Inside The Gun Cupboard

[guest29835]

Everybody says that Jeremy was wrong (and maybe lying) when he claimed that the silenced rifle, outside its case, could not fit inside the gun cupboard.  As proof, they refer to Anthony Pargeter's statement and also the photograph below.

I take the opposite view.  I think this is another myth of the case.  I consider Jeremy was correct on this point and the photograph proves him right.

This is a classic example of how the camera can lie.

A casual observer looking at the photo below would just assume it shows a rifle stored inside a cupboard or recess.  But if you consider the matter in the context of everyday firearms usage, a moment's thought should tell you that what Jeremy has described is confirmed by the photograph.

You can see clearly that the rifle does not fit and has had to be made to fit.  In reality, nobody would store the rifle in that cupboard in the manner shown, together with all the other firearms and paraphernalia that would have to fit in there.   

Anthony Pargeter claims he saw the rifle in that cupboard with the silencer on, but I think it is very likely his recollection was mistaken and influenced by the shooting incident.

[mike tesko]

Interesting, QCC...

What can be added, is that the rifle had been fingerprinted by this time (by reference to the white arrow visible on the wooden rifle butt), and that at some point prior to the commencement of Jeremy Bambers trial, police had physically attached the all important sound moderator onto the end of the rifles barrel!

Note - the presence of a signatured exhibit label attached to rifle, but no such exhibit label attached to the sound moderator.
Is/was this because police knew that there was a .22 rifle with a silencer attached to the barrel of one of the two rifles which were found at the scene at the beginning of the police investigation?

With this knowledge (if true) then I ask myself - whether there was (ever) a sound moderator attached to the .22 semi automatic rifles barrel, when police (firearm officers) entered 'the farmhouse' from 7.30am, onwards? I am  drawn to the following crime scene photograph (23) and I ask myself, at the time this particular photograph was taken (either by Headquarters, or Witham SOCO?), does it confirm this assumption as being 100% true, or not?

[mike tesko]

Interesting, QCC...

What can be added, is that the rifle had been fingerprinted by this time (by reference to the white arrow visible on the wooden rifle butt), and that at some point prior to the commencement of Jeremy Bambers trial, police had physically attached the all important sound moderator onto the end of the rifles barrel!

Note - the presence of a signatured exhibit label attached to rifle, but no such exhibit label attached to the sound moderator.
Is/was this because police knew that there was a .22 rifle with a silencer attached to the barrel of one of the two rifles which were found at the scene at the beginning of the police investigation?

With this knowledge (if true) then I ask myself - whether there was (ever) a sound moderator attached to the .22 semi automatic rifles barrel, when police (firearm officers) entered 'the farmhouse' from 7.30am, onwards? I am  drawn to the following crime scene photograph (23) and I ask myself, at the time this particular photograph was taken (either by Headquarters, or Witham SOCO?), does it confirm this assumption as being 100% true, or not?

PC Bird (Witham SOCO) testified during trial, that he had taken the crime scene photograph (23), in between two visits to the main bedroom crime scene, albeit he added that he did not know who had removed the rifle from Sheila's body and placed it in the bedroom window!

BINGO!!!

If the rifle shown in crime scene photograph 23, has a sound moderator (silencer) fitted onto the end of the .22 (Anshuzt) semi-automatic rifles barrel, when PC Bird claims he he took this photograph ( after 10.00am), then does this not establish beyond any shadow of a doubt, that police have been in wrong-doing?

[Adam]

Relevant events before 7 August 1985 21.

Anthony Pargeter, Nevill Bamber's nephew and a competition standard shot, stayed at White House Farm between 26-28 July 1985. He saw the .22 rifle in the gun cupboard in the ground floor office. The telescopic sights and sound moderator were attached and the gun appeared in a "new" condition.

There were no scratches or marks upon it. Later the appellant, himself a good shot, took the rifle out for some target practice.

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[Adam]

37.

Firearms officers inspected the gun cupboard in the ground floor office to make sure that the other weapons were safe.

Unaware of the possibility that anything in that cupboard might have played a part in the killings, neither they nor any other police officer sought to examine the cupboard or search for any sound moderator or sights for the .22 rifle.

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[Adam]

142.

He described his father as reasonably careful with guns and agreed that had Mr Bamber seen the rifle lying around in the kitchen he would have put it away in the gun cupboard.

He agreed it would have taken him 30 seconds to have returned the gun to its cupboard and that he had been lazy.

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If June had seen the rifle & cartridge,  she would have either put it away or told Nevill it was out.

[Adam]

Thought Bamber said the rifle with silencer would not fit into the case.

It would fit into the gun cupboard. Either standing straight or leaning sideways. Which fits with AP's WS.

[Adam]

Obviously the rifle was in working order when Bamber went out for some target practice a few days before the massacre. Otherwise he would not have taken it to go and shoot rabbits.

[Adam]

133.

He said that he had fired the rifle with the sights both on and off.

He claimed that the gun would not fit into its case with the silencer attached and so it was used mainly with the silencer off.

[David1819]

It fits only in an awkward position at the very front. You can tell from the shadow that it barely inside.

[Adam]

If the gun cupboard was not lockable, Bamber did not need to leave the rifle anywhere. He could just collect it from the gun cupboard.

Although he would have wanted to make sure it was loaded with the silencer attached. Once through the bathroom window, he would not have wanted to hang about.

[guest29835]

It fits only in an awkward position at the very front. You can tell from the shadow that it barely inside.

Page 2 of Anthony Pargeter's second statement to the police, dated 12th. December 1985:

"The gun fitted easily in the cupboard with the silencer and scope fitted."

From context, this is clearly in reference to an Anschutz rifle, of which I will assume the Bambers only had one.  Basically, Anthony is on a visit to the farm.  This is late July 1985.  He has three guns stored in the downstairs washroom.  He goes to check and finds one of them, his .22 rifle, is missing.

June then tells him it may be in the gun cupboard, in the den.  He goes there and this is when he notices the Anschutz rifle.  He takes it out of the gun cupboard, has a look, then returns it to its place.  He says the silencer and scope were fitted throughout.

To me, the way that the rifle is placed in the gun cupboard in that black and white photo suggests somebody has set out to make it fit, rather than it fitting 'easily'.

[guest29835]

If the gun cupboard was not lockable, Bamber did not need to leave the rifle anywhere. He could just collect it from the gun cupboard.

Equally, if Sheila kicked off with the rifle, Nevill would be nervous about how it would look.  If police officers were needed to talk Sheila down, they would want to know how she had got hold of the rifle in the first place.  They might then want to inspect the gun cupboard and would see that it is not secure.  Nevill may also have automatically thought of Jeremy because it was Jeremy who left the rifle out in the first place.

The cupboard was lockable.  The point is that it was not secure.  It was just a simple ball and catch mechanism.  Yet P.C. Dryland in his report earlier that year must have recorded that the gun cupboard was padlocked.  This, I suspect, was based on the officer's assumption or Nevill's assurances.  Or it could be that the officer has lied, or been told to lie by his superiors who were nervous about questions being asked.  Didn't the press and media ask how Sheila or Jeremy could have got hold of a gun in the first place?  Neither held a firearms certificate.

Although he would have wanted to make sure it was loaded with the silencer attached.  Once through the bathroom window, he would not have wanted to hang about.

Yet the rifle could not fit in the gun cupboard with the silencer.  Ironically, the very photo that is produced to prove that it could actually shows that it couldn't.

[Adam]

Equally, if Sheila kicked off with the rifle, Nevill would be nervous about how it would look.  If police officers were needed to talk Sheila down, they would want to know how she had got hold of the rifle in the first place.  They might then want to inspect the gun cupboard and would see that it is not secure.  Nevill may also have automatically thought of Jeremy because it was Jeremy who left the rifle out in the first place.

The cupboard was lockable.  The point is that it was not secure.  It was just a simple ball and catch mechanism.  Yet P.C. Dryland in his report earlier that year must have recorded that the gun cupboard was padlocked.  This, I suspect, was based on the officer's assumption or Nevill's assurances.  Or it could be that the officer has lied, or been told to lie by his superiors who were nervous about questions being asked.  Didn't the press and media ask how Sheila or Jeremy could have got hold of a gun in the first place?  Neither held a firearms certificate.

Yet the rifle could not fit in the gun cupboard with the silencer.  Ironically, the very photo that is produced to prove that it could actually shows that it couldn't.

That must be it.

[guest29835]

Interesting, QCC...

What can be added, is that the rifle had been fingerprinted by this time (by reference to the white arrow visible on the wooden rifle butt), and that at some point prior to the commencement of Jeremy Bambers trial, police had physically attached the all important sound moderator onto the end of the rifles barrel!

Note - the presence of a signatured exhibit label attached to rifle, but no such exhibit label attached to the sound moderator.
Is/was this because police knew that there was a .22 rifle with a silencer attached to the barrel of one of the two rifles which were found at the scene at the beginning of the police investigation?

With this knowledge (if true) then I ask myself - whether there was (ever) a sound moderator attached to the .22 semi automatic rifles barrel, when police (firearm officers) entered 'the farmhouse' from 7.30am, onwards? I am  drawn to the following crime scene photograph (23) and I ask myself, at the time this particular photograph was taken (either by Headquarters, or Witham SOCO?), does it confirm this assumption as being 100% true, or not?

I must admit, it is strange that the rifle has an exhibit label but the sound moderator doesn't.  Is there a reasonable explanation?  In at least one of the FSS records I have seen, the moderator is drawn with an exhibit label clearly attached to it.

When were these black and white photographs taken and who took them and how?  Does anybody know?