Author Topic: The Last Christmas  (Read 5365 times)

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guest29835

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The Last Christmas
« on: December 22, 2021, 11:49:PM »
Is this Jeremy's last Christmas in prison?

I have information from a source that the CCRC are treating Jeremy's March application on a serious level and there has now been formal contact between the CCRC and Essex Police in a manner that suggests to me the application has not been refused (yet) and the CCRC are investigating further. 

I also have information that two new prominent individuals will be backing Jeremy Bamber's campaign.

The claims coming out of the Campaign Team about the evidence and grounds for appeal are extravagant.  We will have to see, but as I hear more, I will post to this thread with updates.

I am being vague at the moment as I cannot reveal my source or be more specific at this time.

My view is that Jeremy will have at least one more Christmas in prison.  Based on what I have heard, I think it will take time for the CCRC to consider and make inquiries and there may have to be a police investigation.  I cannot say what the outcome will be, obviously.

Offline Rob_

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2021, 11:56:PM »
Is this Jeremy's last Christmas in prison?

I have information from a source that the CCRC are treating Jeremy's March application on a serious level and there has now been formal contact between the CCRC and Essex Police in a manner that suggests to me the application has not been refused (yet) and the CCRC are investigating further. 

I also have information that two new prominent individuals will be backing Jeremy Bamber's campaign.

The claims coming out of the Campaign Team about the evidence and grounds for appeal are extravagant.  We will have to see, but as I hear more, I will post to this thread with updates.

I am being vague at the moment as I cannot reveal my source or be more specific at this time.

My view is that Jeremy will have at least one more Christmas in prison.  Based on what I have heard, I think it will take time for the CCRC to consider and make inquiries and there may have to be a police investigation.  I cannot say what the outcome will be, obviously.

Thanks for that info QC you know what I think about the case though my view matters little, but I hope that justice is seen to be done and we live in a fair and just country.


Offline JackieD

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2021, 12:28:AM »
Is this Jeremy's last Christmas in prison?

I have information from a source that the CCRC are treating Jeremy's March application on a serious level and there has now been formal contact between the CCRC and Essex Police in a manner that suggests to me the application has not been refused (yet) and the CCRC are investigating further. 

I also have information that two new prominent individuals will be backing Jeremy Bamber's campaign.

The claims coming out of the Campaign Team about the evidence and grounds for appeal are extravagant.  We will have to see, but as I hear more, I will post to this thread with updates.

I am being vague at the moment as I cannot reveal my source or be more specific at this time.

My view is that Jeremy will have at least one more Christmas in prison.  Based on what I have heard, I think it will take time for the CCRC to consider and make inquiries and there may have to be a police investigation.  I cannot say what the outcome will be, obviously.

Thank you QC that would be truly amazing. I just hope you are right
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

Offline Armchair Detective

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2021, 12:32:AM »
The claims of Bamber and his campaign teams have always been "extravagant" / batshit crazy but from my understanding, he has good credible lawyers behind him for once so perhaps there is something behind all the bullshit this time. 

The police left a lot of room for reasonable doubt IMO but my observation is that anyone that claims to be either way certain about the case is usually wrong about or placing too much reliance on something. There wouldn't be so much scope for debate otherwise.
"When ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything, just let them talk" - Barack Obama

guest29835

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2021, 12:50:AM »
The claims of Bamber and his campaign teams have always been "extravagant" / batshit crazy but from my understanding, he has good credible lawyers behind him for once so perhaps there is something behind all the bullshit this time. 

The police left a lot of room for reasonable doubt IMO but my observation is that anyone that claims to be either way certain about the case is usually wrong about or placing too much reliance on something. There wouldn't be so much scope for debate otherwise.

I agree somewhat with this.  The Campaign Team have been guilty of over-claims, and the general vibe I have had is that they have been making Lomax-era points; and so, until a month or two ago, I was inclined to the view that the March 2021 application was Jeremy's last ditch attempt and it would fail.

However, information I have received from an insider persuades me there may be more to the application than it appears and I now have further information that tells me the CCRC are taking the application seriously.

I would also disagree with you in that I think Jeremy's 2002 appeal should have been successful, but wasn't due to a combination of circumstances that we needn't go into here. 

Offline Armchair Detective

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2021, 01:26:AM »
I agree with this.  The Campaign Team have been guilty of over-claims, and the general vibe I have had is that they have been making Lomax-era points; and so, until a month or two ago, I was inclined to the view that the March 2021 application was Jeremy's last ditch attempt and it would fail.

However, information I have received from an insider persuades me there may be more to the application than it appears and I now have further information that tells me the CCRC are taking the application seriously.

Good comment.  The only point in isolation I would disagree with you on is that I think Jeremy's 2002 appeal should have been successful, but wasn't due to a combination of circumstances that we needn't go into here. 

Welcome to the Forum.  You may wish to introduce yourself in the new member section (Foyer).

You must have read a different appeal to the one I did. There is an argument that the jury should have perhaps acquitted him in '86 on the grounds of reasonable doubt but that ship has sailed. Personally, I think the court of appeal is too hard to please and doesn't discourage prosecuting weak cases with it's high bar, but a high bar it has.

The CCRC have been rightly criticised for their conservative approach to previous cases and their huge cut in funding cannot help but as I understand, they took 7 years to dismiss Bambers last application so there is unlikely to be decision soon unless there really is some dynamite in the latest submissions ( and if there is, I can see no good reason for this not to be made public) 

I would suggest that the CCRC have a legal obligation to take every submission "seriously" but that is a long way from making a referral to the court of appeal.

Thanks for the welcome. :)
 
"When ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything, just let them talk" - Barack Obama

guest29835

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2021, 01:36:AM »
You must have read a different appeal to the one I did. There is an argument that the jury should have perhaps acquitted him in '86 on the grounds of reasonable doubt but that ship has sailed. Personally, I think the court of appeal is too hard to please and doesn't discourage prosecuting weak cases with it's high bar, but a high bar it has.

The CCRC have been rightly criticised for their conservative approach to previous cases and their huge cut in funding cannot help but as I understand, they took 7 years to dismiss Bambers last application so there is unlikely to be decision soon unless there really is some dynamite in the latest submissions ( and if there is, I can see no good reason for this not to be made public) 

I would suggest that the CCRC have a legal obligation to take every submission "seriously" but that is a long way from making a referral to the court of appeal.

Thanks for the welcome. :)

That sentence in bold seems to me a contradiction.  If you acknowledge there may have been reasonable doubt in 1986 (I think there was), that suggests the 2002 appeal should have succeeded. I think the evidence was there for a successful appeal and it was messed up.

I totally understand that the CCRC may not refer the case.  I have offered an opinion based on inside information that unfortunately I can't detail at this point but that suggests they are not just going to dismiss the application summarily - which does happen in some cases.

Offline Armchair Detective

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2021, 02:45:AM »
That sentence in bold seems to me a contradiction.  If you acknowledge there may have been reasonable doubt in 1986 (I think there was), that suggests the 2002 appeal should have succeeded. I think the evidence was there for a successful appeal and it was messed up.

I totally understand that the CCRC may not refer the case.  I have offered an opinion based on inside information that unfortunately I can't detail at this point but that suggests they are not just going to dismiss the application summarily - which does happen in some cases.

Nope. The jury made their decision. The court of appeal made theirs on *entirely* different criteria.

If you were to suggest that a CoA that was more inclined toward a holistic approach to cases should have acquitted then I could possibly agree but the 10 days of weak garbage that was presented clearly only served to annoy them into proclaiming him more guilty than ever - far from a usual step from the notoriously harsh CoA.

The DNA evidence was declared "useless" by Bamber's own expert. Everything else was far worse, if not downright laughable. ( Was Bamber not present when his own hands were examined? The fact that possible contamination of Sheila's hand swabs could only have aided Bamber etc)

The problem, if there is one, is the primacy of the jury and the reluctance of an appeal court to go behind their findings of fact - and the problem with that is that there is no use having 12 peers pass judgement if they can be summarily overruled by three judges. Once the jury has passed a verdict, the burden essentially passes to the appellant and there is no way of changing that without fundamentally changing the entire principle of a jury trial *and* doing so while cutting costs lest the daily mail print a load of dogwhistling crap about undeserving criminals while billionaires like Lord Rothermere avoid tax!
"When ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything, just let them talk" - Barack Obama

Offline Adam

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2021, 05:44:AM »
Of course the CCRC will take all applications seriously.

NGB said the 2012 application took 3 months. That was just on one ground.

This application is on 8 grounds.

Each ground on it's own would be dismissed. The application is relying on quantity over quality.

However each ground must be looked at. If each takes 3 months to look at, that is 2 years.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2021, 05:51:AM »
I agree somewhat with this.  The Campaign Team have been guilty of over-claims, and the general vibe I have had is that they have been making Lomax-era points; and so, until a month or two ago, I was inclined to the view that the March 2021 application was Jeremy's last ditch attempt and it would fail.

However, information I have received from an insider persuades me there may be more to the application than it appears and I now have further information that tells me the CCRC are taking the application seriously.

I would also disagree with you in that I think Jeremy's 2002 appeal should have been successful, but wasn't due to a combination of circumstances that we needn't go into here.

The COA was very critical of the appeal & of the CCRC for putting it forward.

As with the current CCRC submission the 2002 COA relied on quantity over quality with a massive 16 grounds. Each ground on it's own would have been dismissed.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2021, 06:08:AM »
Is this Jeremy's last Christmas in prison?

I have information from a source that the CCRC are treating Jeremy's March application on a serious level and there has now been formal contact between the CCRC and Essex Police in a manner that suggests to me the application has not been refused (yet) and the CCRC are investigating further. 

I also have information that two new prominent individuals will be backing Jeremy Bamber's campaign.

The claims coming out of the Campaign Team about the evidence and grounds for appeal are extravagant.  We will have to see, but as I hear more, I will post to this thread with updates.

I am being vague at the moment as I cannot reveal my source or be more specific at this time.

My view is that Jeremy will have at least one more Christmas in prison.  Based on what I have heard, I think it will take time for the CCRC to consider and make inquiries and there may have to be a police investigation.  I cannot say what the outcome will be, obviously.

Who from, Bill?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2021, 06:09:AM »
QC likes to pretend he's in the know.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline JackieD

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2021, 09:06:AM »
That sentence in bold seems to me a contradiction.  If you acknowledge there may have been reasonable doubt in 1986 (I think there was), that suggests the 2002 appeal should have succeeded. I think the evidence was there for a successful appeal and it was messed up.

I totally understand that the CCRC may not refer the case.  I have offered an opinion based on inside information that unfortunately I can't detail at this point but that suggests they are not just going to dismiss the application summarily - which does happen in some cases.

QC if the conviction is going to be overturned at a guess which part of the case would be the reason

I have been keeping my fingers crossed we didn’t know everything detailed in the submissions
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

Offline killingeve

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2021, 10:14:AM »
The claims of Bamber and his campaign teams have always been "extravagant" / batshit crazy but from my understanding, he has good credible lawyers behind him for once so perhaps there is something behind all the bullshit this time. 

The police left a lot of room for reasonable doubt IMO but my observation is that anyone that claims to be either way certain about the case is usually wrong about or placing too much reliance on something. There wouldn't be so much scope for debate otherwise.

I am sceptical because apparently the submission contains 347 pages of evidence!  I would have thought after 35 years a successful submission would be narrow and focused.  Less is more!

Also in a podcast with Shaun Atwood Yvonne claims "the police know Jeremy is innocent" which is clearly nonsense.  Yvonne fails to appreciate that if she perceives something in a certain way eg the phone logs purporting to show a call from Mr Bamber that others are not necessarily going to perceive it in the same way as its open to interpretation and in any event isn't evidence based which is what the CCRC and CoA are looking for.   

Offline killingeve

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Re: The Last Christmas
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2021, 10:25:AM »
That sentence in bold seems to me a contradiction.  If you acknowledge there may have been reasonable doubt in 1986 (I think there was), that suggests the 2002 appeal should have succeeded. I think the evidence was there for a successful appeal and it was messed up.

I totally understand that the CCRC may not refer the case.  I have offered an opinion based on inside information that unfortunately I can't detail at this point but that suggests they are not just going to dismiss the application summarily - which does happen in some cases.

It doesn't matter what you think.  You didn't attend the full trial and sit through all the evidence and hear witnesses give their testimony.  Bamber was found guilty 10-2 = 10 jurors thought Bamber guilty beyond reasonable doubt. 

On what basis should the 2002 appeal have resulted in Bamber's conviction being quashed?

The CCRC treat all applications the same and diligently reply to each point put forward.

Have you read the full CCRC report detailing why the 2012 submission failed?  Not the brief report for public consumption the full report?