Author Topic: My Challenge To The Supporters  (Read 35980 times)

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Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #165 on: November 22, 2021, 12:12:PM »
To be fair, Bill, wasn't Jeremy telling the police that this was a dangerous situation and filling them in with background about the phone call and what not? If Sheila was armed and inside the house, there would be a risk that she could fire from a window or through a door, and anybody attempting an unarmed entry would be at a disadvantage and vulnerable.  I have never been a police officer, you have, but would you accept all this?
Yes, that’s fine, but in 1985 things were different to nowadays when armed police show up to every incident. In 5 years I only saw it once. It suggests to me that Bews must have seen Sheila armed with a rifle at the bedroom window. I can’t think of any other reason to run back to CA7. If he didn’t see her in the window then he had no reason to call up the cavalry. Besides, Bews lies every time he opens his mouth!

Offline lookout

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #166 on: November 22, 2021, 12:19:PM »
Let's see the original report when Bews radioed the call-out for the firearms team !

Offline Jane

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #167 on: November 22, 2021, 12:25:PM »
Yes, that’s fine, but in 1985 things were different to nowadays when armed police show up to every incident. In 5 years I only saw it once. It suggests to me that Bews must have seen Sheila armed with a rifle at the bedroom window. I can’t think of any other reason to run back to CA7. If he didn’t see her in the window then he had no reason to call up the cavalry. Besides, Bews lies every time he opens his mouth!


You appear to be saying that unless/until Bews thought he'd seen/had the suggestion put to him that he'd seen Sheila with a gun, he'd had no knowledge of ANY armed person in the house?

Offline Jane

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #168 on: November 22, 2021, 12:28:PM »
Didn't one or two describe the apparition as being male ? Walking from left to right, or was it right to left ? Which to my mind looks to have been a human and not a " trick of the light ".


I suspect such may have been, like Chinese whispers, the adds-on over the years, OR it started off as "Was that .............?" and ended up being "That was................."

Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #169 on: November 22, 2021, 12:28:PM »
To be fair, Bill, wasn't Jeremy telling the police that this was a dangerous situation and filling them in with background about the phone call and what not? If Sheila was armed and inside the house, there would be a risk that she could fire from a window or through a door, and anybody attempting an unarmed entry would be at a disadvantage and vulnerable.  I have never been a police officer, you have, but would you accept all this?
In a similar context I remember that when the IRA were leaving bombs in shop doorways I was sent in the early hours to a sports bag that was in a shop doorway. My Sergeant told me to look inside as he was not willing to call out the bomb squad. It was a risk that you were expected to take, or face ridicule should it be a false alarm. I view WHF as a similar situation, easy to be wise after the event and excuse Bews for his actions in asking for armed police. Not that they did anything useful when they did arrive.

Offline Adam

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #170 on: November 22, 2021, 12:30:PM »
Yes, that’s fine, but in 1985 things were different to nowadays when armed police show up to every incident. In 5 years I only saw it once. It suggests to me that Bews must have seen Sheila armed with a rifle at the bedroom window. I can’t think of any other reason to run back to CA7. If he didn’t see her in the window then he had no reason to call up the cavalry. Besides, Bews lies every time he opens his mouth!

Sounds like the scenes when Michael Myers arrives.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #171 on: November 22, 2021, 12:46:PM »
In a similar context I remember that when the IRA were leaving bombs in shop doorways I was sent in the early hours to a sports bag that was in a shop doorway. My Sergeant told me to look inside as he was not willing to call out the bomb squad. It was a risk that you were expected to take, or face ridicule should it be a false alarm. I view WHF as a similar situation, easy to be wise after the event and excuse Bews for his actions in asking for armed police. Not that they did anything useful when they did arrive.


And was there a bomb in the bag? Oh! Hang on! Of course there wasn't -or at least not one which exploded- as you're here with us posting. I guess that was a 50/50 chance. Happily, in your favour. However, would that same sergeant have demanded the same action of you, had he known there to be a bomb in said bag? The situation is dissimilar to WHF in that there was alleged to have been a psychotic woman brandishing a loaded gun. What POSSIBLE use would it have been for any unarmed officer to go into such a situation, other than to become a dead hero?

guest7363

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #172 on: November 22, 2021, 12:56:PM »
No, for a start, Bews was supposedly not aware that Sheila was psychotic or that she had previously attempted suicide (when?) Bews had no reason not to at the very least look through the windows. He was a police officer, you were paid to take a certain amount of risk.
I don’t think you read or understand a Fooking thing! Serious!

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38125

Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #173 on: November 22, 2021, 01:00:PM »
I don’t think you read or understand a Fooking thing! Serious!

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38125
Of course, you are right. I give in, you are the expert. I’m off.

Offline Roch

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #174 on: November 22, 2021, 01:09:PM »
I don’t think you read or understand a Fooking thing! Serious!

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38125

Am I missing something?

He said he doesn't really know (whether Sheila is the type to go berserk with a gun). Therefore, the only info Bews had to the contrary was whatever had been relayed to him by police.

As we know, Bamber had alleged that is father had said she had got hold of a gun and gone berserk. However, this should have already been relayed to Bews via police.

Not sure of your point here RJ.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 01:15:PM by Roch »

Offline Jane

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #175 on: November 22, 2021, 01:18:PM »
Am I missing something?

He said he doesn't really know (whether Sheila is the type to go berserk with a gun). Therefore, the only info Bews had to the contrary was whatever had been relayed to him by police.

As we know, Bamber had alleged that is father had said she had got hold of a gun and gone berserk. However, this should have already been relayed to Bews via police.

Not sure of your point here RJ.


Yup! You are. Read the above link. If Bews hadn't previously know what the situation was -or was alleged to be- JB's words would have left him in no doubt.


I don’t think you read or understand a Fooking thing! Serious!

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38125

guest29835

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #176 on: November 22, 2021, 01:18:PM »

And was there a bomb in the bag? Oh! Hang on! Of course there wasn't -or at least not one which exploded- as you're here with us posting. I guess that was a 50/50 chance. Happily, in your favour. However, would that same sergeant have demanded the same action of you, had he known there to be a bomb in said bag? The situation is dissimilar to WHF in that there was alleged to have been a psychotic woman brandishing a loaded gun. What POSSIBLE use would it have been for any unarmed officer to go into such a situation, other than to become a dead hero?

This is a good observation, but I can also see the point Bill is making.  Police practices are different today.  If this happened in 2021, armed police would respond immediately, whereas back in 1985, Bews could not rely on an immediate armed response and was expected to act more on his own initiative. 

Bews did not know that Sheila was inside with a gun because (from Bews' viewpoint at that moment in time) Jeremy did not know this.  All he had to go on was Jeremy's report of a call from his father, and when they arrived at the farmhouse, there was no noise and no sign of activity. 

Thus, there was nothing to report back to HQ that could justify an armed response.  Yes, today in 2021, it would be totally different.  Today, most British police forces are ultra-precautionary in their approach to such incidents, even when the facts are misty and unclear, and armed response officers are mobilised for a man carrying a water pistol (that has literally happened).  It's a totally different culture, due to a much more safety-conscious society.

Let's say Bews, or his colleague, reports back to HQ and says: "Right, I'm here.  Just walked back from the farmhouse.  Had a scout round outside.  Nothing happening, no activity, no sign of anybody.  The son is with me and says he had the phone call, which you already know about.  Says his sister is a nutter.  What shall we do?"

Would armed police have come in at that point?  Maybe, but I'm not convinced it's a certainty.  I acknowledge that we're guessing about a hypothesis, but consider it logically.

Now let's imagine a different conversation between Bews (or whoever) and HQ:

"Yeah, we've just jogged back from the farmhouse pretty sharpish as we think we saw movement in the upstairs window.  Not absolutely sure about that and no activity around the house, but the son is with me and says he had the phone call, which you already know about.  Says his sister is a nutter.  What shall we do?"

Remember also that Bews was himself a trained authorised firearms officer, albeit he was no longer serving in that specialism and not armed for his ordinary response duties that night.  I accept that fact could be read either way.  You could argue this made Bews more 'jumpy' than a more naive officer would have been and perhaps influenced his thoughts, observations and impressions.  On the other hand, we could give Bews credit as a highly-professional officer who saw all the signs of a dangerous situation and wasted no time getting back to the radio so he could alert HQ and set the wheels in motion.

guest29835

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #177 on: November 22, 2021, 01:23:PM »
I don’t think you read or understand a Fooking thing! Serious!

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38125

I think you need to stop insulting other posters who disagree with you.

guest7363

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #178 on: November 22, 2021, 01:25:PM »

Jane I give up, if you read Bews and his follow up in his statements, anyone with half a brain will see why he phoned for the Armed response, when Bamber mentions her being a Psychopath and capable of using guns. 

guest7363

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Re: My Challenge To The Supporters
« Reply #179 on: November 22, 2021, 01:26:PM »
I think you need to stop insulting other posters who disagree with you.
I think you need to keep your nose out!