My Challenge To The Supporters

[killingeve]

Shooting scene reconstructions are part of everyday forensic science eg

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca-divisions/forensic-science/Pages/forensic-programs-crime-scene-ssrecon.aspx

https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780123822413/shooting-incident-reconstruction

You guys have the advantage of masses of data to reconstruct with 26 gunshot wounds. 

Some Points To Remember

* 12 cartridge cases main bedroom.  1 cartridge case on landing.

* Pathological and forensic evidence supports Nicholas receiving 5 gunshot wounds in quick succession.  And it is thought the twins received all gunshot wounds at the same time.

* Pathological and forensic evidence supports Mrs Bamber receiving 6 not immediately life threatening gunshot wounds in quick succession whilst she was in bed and getting out of.  The two immediately life threatening gunshot wounds occuring later.  All shots were to her front.

* Pathological and forensic evidence supports Mr Bamber receiving 4 not immediately life threatening gunshot wounds upstairs.  Two to the face rendered his incapable of purposeful speech thereafter.  The gunshot wounds to his arm and torso were fired to the rear of his body.  The four immediately life threatening gunshot wounds downstairs were thought to have been fired in quick succession.

Please remember there's other evidence you need to factor in too such as bloodstains and distance of shots. 

[killingeve]

Here's the forensic evidence regarding the distance of shots -

63. Of the seven injuries suffered by June Bamber, five were shots from the gun held at least one foot away from the body. The bullet wound between the eyes was fired from less than one foot away, and could have been with the gun in contact with the skin, although he viewed that as unlikely. Mr Fletcher was unable to estimate the range of the shot which had caused the injury to the right side of Mrs Bamber's chest.

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

65. As regards the twins, four of the five injuries suffered by Daniel were caused when the gun was held within one foot of his head, the fifth was from over two feet away. The three wounds to Nicholas were contact or close proximity shots.

[David1819]

While Sheila took the gun upstairs to shoot June. Nevill rang Jeremy. Nevil ended the call and ran upstairs as he heard shots being fired. Sheila had fired five shots at June. She then pivoted and shot Nevill with the remaining four bullets in the magazine as Nevill came up the stairs.


One shell casing was found a few steps down the landing. I believe three of the shell casings from shots fired a Nevil bounced off the wall, while one went passed the door frame onto the landing area. As the reconstruction below illustrates

[Adam]

While Sheila took the gun upstairs to shoot June. Nevill rang Jeremy. Nevil ended the call and ran upstairs as he heard shots being fired. Sheila had fired five shots at June. She then pivoted and shot Nevill with the remaining four bullets in the magazine as Nevill came up the stairs.


One shell casing was found a few steps down the landing. I believe three of the shell casings from shots fired a Nevil bounced off the wall, while one went passed the door frame onto the landing area. As the reconstruction below illustrates

That is where your scenario has to be binned.

[Adam]

While Sheila took the gun upstairs to shoot June. Nevill rang Jeremy. Nevil ended the call and ran upstairs as he heard shots being fired. Sheila had fired five shots at June. She then pivoted and shot Nevill with the remaining four bullets in the magazine as Nevill came up the stairs.


One shell casing was found a few steps down the landing. I believe three of the shell casings from shots fired a Nevil bounced off the wall, while one went passed the door frame onto the landing area. As the reconstruction below illustrates

 

[Adam]

While Sheila took the gun upstairs to shoot June. Nevill rang Jeremy. Nevil ended the call and ran upstairs as he heard shots being fired. Sheila had fired five shots at June. She then pivoted and shot Nevill with the remaining four bullets in the magazine as Nevill came up the stairs.


One shell casing was found a few steps down the landing. I believe three of the shell casings from shots fired a Nevil bounced off the wall, while one went passed the door frame onto the landing area. As the reconstruction below illustrates

No shots would be heard.

[Adam]

While Sheila took the gun upstairs to shoot June. Nevill rang Jeremy. Nevil ended the call and ran upstairs as he heard shots being fired. Sheila had fired five shots at June. She then pivoted and shot Nevill with the remaining four bullets in the magazine as Nevill came up the stairs.


One shell casing was found a few steps down the landing. I believe three of the shell casings from shots fired a Nevil bounced off the wall, while one went passed the door frame onto the landing area. As the reconstruction below illustrates

Nevill's first two face shots were from inches away.

[Bubo bubo]

Try answering items where you have been challenged!

Posts: 300
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Re: The rifle Sheila used to hold Nevill hostage.
« Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 10:38 AM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: Cambridgecutie on Yesterday at 08:47 AM
I'm afraid common sense, logic and rational thought are in short supply in this place.

The seed has now been sown about a second magazine and no doubt this will feature in Bamber's next submission.   

In that case can YOU give a rational answer as to why DB made two statements on 24/10/85. Each deals with items he collected on 11/09/85 and 12/09/85 at WHF. The items collected are different in these two statements.

I have asked for this to be answered on numerous occasions and no response so far.

I would also ask you why this is not sinister.

[Adam]

While Sheila took the gun upstairs to shoot June. Nevill rang Jeremy. Nevil ended the call and ran upstairs as he heard shots being fired. Sheila had fired five shots at June. She then pivoted and shot Nevill with the remaining four bullets in the magazine as Nevill came up the stairs.


One shell casing was found a few steps down the landing. I believe three of the shell casings from shots fired a Nevil bounced off the wall, while one went passed the door frame onto the landing area. As the reconstruction below illustrates

Mmmmm.

[killingeve]

Try answering items where you have been challenged!

Posts: 300
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Re: The rifle Sheila used to hold Nevill hostage.
« Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 10:38 AM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: Cambridgecutie on Yesterday at 08:47 AM
I'm afraid common sense, logic and rational thought are in short supply in this place.

The seed has now been sown about a second magazine and no doubt this will feature in Bamber's next submission.   

In that case can YOU give a rational answer as to why DB made two statements on 24/10/85. Each deals with items he collected on 11/09/85 and 12/09/85 at WHF. The items collected are different in these two statements.

I have asked for this to be answered on numerous occasions and no response so far.

I would also ask you why this is not sinister.

Off topic.  A repeat offence will result in a case for a ban!  Don't say you weren't warned!

[killingeve]

While Sheila took the gun upstairs to shoot June. Nevill rang Jeremy. Nevil ended the call and ran upstairs as he heard shots being fired. Sheila had fired five shots at June. She then pivoted and shot Nevill with the remaining four bullets in the magazine as Nevill came up the stairs.


One shell casing was found a few steps down the landing. I believe three of the shell casings from shots fired a Nevil bounced off the wall, while one went passed the door frame onto the landing area. As the reconstruction below illustrates

Nice try with the graphics but the shots to Mr Bamber's face were fired when the rifle was inches away.  These shots were slightly below the horizontal.  The arm and torso shots were fired from at least two feet away, to the rear and from above. 

[Adam]

Nice try with the graphics but the shots to Mr Bamber's face were fired when the rifle was inches away.  These shots were slightly below the horizontal.  The arm and torso shots were fired from at least two feet away, to the rear and from above.

When do we get your Bamber scenario?

Or is mine fine?

[killingeve]

When do we get your Bamber scenario?

Or is mine fine?

Yours seems to fit the crime evidence.

[David1819]

Nice try with the graphics but the shots to Mr Bamber's face were fired when the rifle was inches away.  These shots were slightly below the horizontal.  The arm and torso shots were fired from at least two feet away, to the rear and from above.

One must consider the fact that Malcom Fletcher came to this conclusion by looking at autopsy photographs. He did not inspect the actual wounds as would be best practice.

And when you also factor in that Nevils head was in contact with a coal scuttle. Its very possible that Fletchers opinion is being skewed by a phenomenon known as "Pseudo Powder Tattooing"

https://www.bevfitchett.us/gunshot-wounds/stippling-powder-tattooing-and-pseudopowder-tattooing.html

[Adam]

Yours seems to fit the crime evidence.

Thanks.

You don't see Grisham in CSI saying 'maybe this happened'.

He follows the evidence & says 'this did happen'.

There are other possible Bamber scenarios. CAL's differs to mine.