A great post from the facebook group.

[Adam]

Then there is Sheila's nightdress.

But hey it's only forensic evidence. JackieD posted today that someone said Jeremy was a nice man. So must be innocent.

[Rob_]

Then there is Sheila's nightdress.

But hey it's only forensic evidence. JackieD posted today that someone said Jeremy was a nice man. So must be innocent.

Well no normal person could have done the crime Adam.

[Steve_uk]

Well no normal person could have done the crime Adam.

Yes wasn't it Peter Vanezis who said: "Jeremy must have been a nutter to do this"..

[Adam]

Inheritance killings have always & will always happen.

[David1819]

Well no normal person could have done the crime Adam.

The prosecutions firearm "expert" already admitted that his comments on the nightdress was meaningless.

"Mr M.D Fletcher Cross Examined

Q: You postulated Mr. Fletcher, didn't you, that if the wounds were self-inflicted, the wounds to Mrs. Caffell, you would have expected to find traces of oil and firearms discharge on the front of her nightdress?

A: I did qualify that by saying if the wounds were self-inflicted, using a rifle held close to the body.

Q: You obviously worked out the approximate angles of fire, as explored?

A: I had looked at some possible angles of fire yes.
 
Q: You had seen the X-rays.

A: I am sorry I misunderstood. I thought you meant the ways of holding the gun rather than the track of the bullet. I beg your pardon, I see now yes.

Q: I think you have seen the sketches that we have put forward, which are agreed, yes?

A: Yes I have.

Q: Number 1 on the sketch is the contact wound.

A: Yes sir.

Q: With the gun held pointing at that angle would you expect residue on the nightdress.

A: You could certainly position the head and gun so that it would be possible to get residue on the nightdress.

Q: The point is surely Mr. Fletcher that it doesn't make any difference whatsoever whether the wound is self-inflicted or inflicted by anybody else, if the gun is held at a particular angle you might get residue on the nightdress?

A: If held in the correct position certainly. Close to the body at the correct angle for the projection of the bullet in the head.

Q: Why is that correct?

A: To fulfil the requirements for the residue to get on to the nightdress.

Q: It doesn't help us to be certain whether they were self-inflicted or inflicted by another person, does it?

A: It does give a particular set of circumstances. I am trying to tell you what I would expect to find. If some of those circumstances don't occur or were incorrect then my finding, are, as you say, not valid.

Q: Forgive me, I am probably being extremely stupid. Does it help at all? What I am suggesting to you is that it didn't help us at all in deciding whether the wounds were self-inflicted or not self-inflicted. The gun would have had to be in a particular angle to the body in order to deliver the wound in the direction it is in,in either case.

A: Yes. "

[Adam]

The prosecutions firearm "expert" already admitted that his comments on the nightdress was meaningless.

"Mr M.D Fletcher Cross Examined

Q: You postulated Mr. Fletcher, didn't you, that if the wounds were self-inflicted, the wounds to Mrs. Caffell, you would have expected to find traces of oil and firearms discharge on the front of her nightdress?

A: I did qualify that by saying if the wounds were self-inflicted, using a rifle held close to the body.

Q: You obviously worked out the approximate angles of fire, as explored?

A: I had looked at some possible angles of fire yes.
 
Q: You had seen the X-rays.

A: I am sorry I misunderstood. I thought you meant the ways of holding the gun rather than the track of the bullet. I beg your pardon, I see now yes.

Q: I think you have seen the sketches that we have put forward, which are agreed, yes?

A: Yes I have.

Q: Number 1 on the sketch is the contact wound.

A: Yes sir.

Q: With the gun held pointing at that angle would you expect residue on the nightdress.

A: You could certainly position the head and gun so that it would be possible to get residue on the nightdress.

Q: The point is surely Mr. Fletcher that it doesn't make any difference whatsoever whether the wound is self-inflicted or inflicted by anybody else, if the gun is held at a particular angle you might get residue on the nightdress?

A: If held in the correct position certainly. Close to the body at the correct angle for the projection of the bullet in the head.

Q: Why is that correct?

A: To fulfil the requirements for the residue to get on to the nightdress.

Q: It doesn't help us to be certain whether they were self-inflicted or inflicted by another person, does it?

A: It does give a particular set of circumstances. I am trying to tell you what I would expect to find. If some of those circumstances don't occur or were incorrect then my finding, are, as you say, not valid.

Q: Forgive me, I am probably being extremely stupid. Does it help at all? What I am suggesting to you is that it didn't help us at all in deciding whether the wounds were self-inflicted or not self-inflicted. The gun would have had to be in a particular angle to the body in order to deliver the wound in the direction it is in,in either case.

A: Yes. "

 it didn't help us at all in deciding whether the wounds were self-inflicted or not self-inflicted. The gun would have had to be in a particular angle to the body in order to deliver the wound in the direction it is in,in either case.

----------

What has that got to do with no GSR on the nightdress.

[Adam]

David thinks he can copy & paste a long extract & post it in bold & red. Then everything is ok.

A bit like saying he has a 'forensic evidence breakthrough', then not posting it.

[Adam]

51.

Mrs Caffell's nightdress was bloodstained. When tested the blood was consistent with being her own blood.

The garment was also examined for the presence of any firearm discharge residues or oil from the rifle. No such traces were found. The scientist gave evidence that there would be a strong chance of finding such residues or markings on the clothing of an individual who had fired a rifle twenty-five times.

[Rob_]

My Sheila scenario is wrong Adam, thanks to information from David Sheila cannot have washed before committing suicide. The level of copper traces on her left hand matched the level of copper on a lab testee who had also loaded 18 bullets into a magazine.

Now that's what I call evidence.

[Adam]

216.

At trial, Mr Rivlin QC, who appeared for the appellant at trial, sought to counteract this evidence in two ways.

First in cross-examination of the scientist, he drew his attention to traces of other elements in the test results from the swabs, iron and copper, and queried whether these were significant.

The scientist said that they were no more than might have been obtained from the atmosphere. He did not think the copper could have come from the bullets unless they had been scratched.

[Steve_uk]

My Sheila scenario is wrong Adam, thanks to information from David Sheila cannot have washed before committing suicide. The level of copper traces on her left hand matched the level of copper on a lab testee who had also loaded 18 bullets into a magazine.

Now that's what I call evidence.

The act of loading the magazine of an automatic weapon (carried out at least twice in this case) would be expected to leave visible traces of the lubricant and the materials from the bullets on the hands.
49. DC Hammersley, the Scenes of Crimes Officer placed plastic bags over Sheila Caffell's hands and feet before her body was removed from the farmhouse. He saw some blood staining to the back of the right hand, but apart from that the hands, to his eye were clean and the nails intact. The deceased’s feet were also free from blood staining and from any debris such as sugar.
50. Following removal of the bags at the mortuary, Sheila Caffell’s hands and forehead were swabbed. Extremely low traces of lead were detected when the swabs were examined. Such levels being consistent with the levels found from the handling of every day things around the house. These results were compared to hand swabs taken from volunteers at the laboratory who were required to load the magazine with eighteen rounds of ammunition.

 Significantly higher traces of lead were found than those recorded on the hands of Mrs Caffell. The scientist Mr Elliott gave evidence that if Sheila Caffell had loaded eighteen cartridges into a magazine he would have expected the hand swabs to have revealed appreciably higher deposits of lead.
51. Mrs Caffell’s nightdress was bloodstained. When tested the blood was consistent with being her own blood. The garment was also examined for the presence of any firearm discharge residues or oil from the rifle. No such traces were found.

[Adam]

Supporters don't really go by the evidence. Except for the silencer.

It is mainly about Julie, the relatives, Sheila being alive & Nevill calling the police.

[Rob_]

She would have washed etc. before going to bed that night assuming she went to bed, so any traces on her hands at that stage would be minimal to nothing.

I never looked into this because I thought it was accepted her hands were free of GSR. There are several types of bullet that the .22 can fire, I don't know the compositions of lead/copper in each type of bullet and if lead washes off easier than copper so I will look into this more.

[Rob_]

Supporters don't really go by the evidence. Except for the silencer.

It is mainly about Julie, the relatives, Sheila being alive & Nevill calling the police.

I go by the evidence Adam, but I also look very closely at the actions of how people behave. For example Bews running to me is very important to the case. Strips of negatives being cut up etc.

[lookout]

She would have washed etc. before going to bed that night assuming she went to bed, so any traces on her hands at that stage would be minimal to nothing.

I never looked into this because I thought it was accepted her hands were free of GSR. There are several types of bullet that the .22 can fire, I don't know the compositions of lead/copper in each type of bullet and if lead washes off easier than copper so I will look into this more.

I'm surprised that JB's clothes weren't whisked away for GSR testing because it would have shown up amongst the fibres of his clothing. Then again, so would Sheila's nightdress. Unfortunately her day clothes were soaking in water-----which I think she wore when she shot everyone before she changed into her nightdress.