Author Topic: Louis Theroux  (Read 40152 times)

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guest29835

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #315 on: October 02, 2021, 04:26:PM »
A pity your two Sheila alledged scenarios I can't find.

Rob at least tried. But failed to defend 34 flaws. So his scenario is dismissed.

He needs to re submit but says not being able to explain how Sheila committed the massacre is not important.

Sorry you can't find them.

Offline Rob_

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #316 on: October 02, 2021, 04:27:PM »
Did the rifle fit in the cupboard with the silencer on? or did it have to be removed first?

"So almost certainly sedated" good Adam you are starting to see the light!

Offline Adam

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #317 on: October 02, 2021, 04:29:PM »
You've changed your tune from:

Sheila was sedated

to:

Sheila was almost certainly sedated.

It's progress, I suppose, but the point is we don't know that Sheila was sedated.

Also - and maybe more importantly - sedation is a term of art, whereas most use the term non-technically.  Being sedated does not mean Sheila can be eliminated as a suspect.

Do you believe Bamber could not have moved Sheila into his chosen position?

Bamber thought he could after checking on her at supper.

Sheila was also very vacant when on the phone that evening. Giving one word answers.

Sheila was easy prey for Bamber.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest29835

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #318 on: October 02, 2021, 04:30:PM »
Did the rifle fit in the cupboard with the silencer on? or did it have to be removed first?

"So almost certainly sedated" good Adam you are starting to see the light!

It did not.  I have demonstrated this on here in a thread I started previously.  The police tried to demonstrate it could with a photograph of the rifle in the cupboard with the silencer on, but what people don't take into account is that the position of the rifle in the photograph is contrived.  An ordinary, casual user would not spend time trying to construe to fit the moderated rifle in the cupboard like a contestant on the Krypton Factor, you would just take the silencer off. Jeremy was right on this point. 

Offline Adam

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #319 on: October 02, 2021, 04:31:PM »
Sorry you can't find them.

Maybe you can help.

Not just for me. I am sure the forum would like to discuss them.

Maybe create a thread for each one.

Thank you.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #320 on: October 02, 2021, 04:32:PM »
Honestly. Is nobody allowed to make suggestions of how certain things unfolded without being criticised ?

I have stated this same thing in the past about the rabbits and my own personal take is that the discussion around the dinner table that night had got so heated that Jeremy waltzed off with the rifle on the pretext of going to shoot rabbits because he probably couldn't get a word in to say he was leaving. When things quietened down he went back into the kitchen and made his announcement that he was going. He wouldn't have heard all that had gone on but managed to hear talk of fostering----which was initially denied when he did mention it to police and RWB.

Offline Rob_

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #321 on: October 02, 2021, 04:33:PM »
Surely you can't mean this, Rob.  Adam is the leading scenario writer on the Forum, perhaps in the entire Pantheon of true crime writers.  The way Adam crafts his scenarios leaves most of us in awe.  His work is superlative.  Even Jeremy himself shivers at the mention of Adam's name, and the appeal judges hang on his every word.

You are making me feel bad now QC!

When Adam submits his better version perhaps he can include why Bews ran back to the car?

guest29835

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #322 on: October 02, 2021, 04:39:PM »
Do you believe Bamber could not have moved Sheila into his chosen position?

Bamber thought he could after checking on her at supper.

Sheila was also very vacant when on the phone that evening. Giving one word answers.

Sheila was easy prey for Bamber.

That's a complex question in its own right.  Clearly, he literally could have done because he could have just asked Sheila and she might have agreed, if she was in a mental state that disposed her to agree - especially if Jeremy was pointing a gun at her.

But can't you see the problems with that scenario?  You rely on the claim that Sheila was found immaculate.  How can this be?  Wouldn't Sheila have resisted at some point?  You will say she was sedated, but do you understand what the expression 'sedated' means in the medical and physio-pharmacological senses, or in reality?  It does not necessarily mean that she would be unable to defend herself.  You may say she would be confused and tired, but wouldn't that make it more difficult for Jeremy, not less?  How is it that Sheila had no blood on her feet when she was walking through a bloodied crime scene?

I could put dozens of questions to you.  We could go into a discussion about the Ismail and Vanezis evidence.  I think Ismail's evidence is wrong but Vanezis' evidence was correct.  The angles at which Sheila was shot seemed to indicate to me that the killer must be Jeremy, but on further reflection I realised that I had not taken into account the position Jeremy would need to be in to make the shots.  It's not just where Sheila was but also where Jeremy was, and his posture and so on.

This isn't simple!

Offline Adam

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #323 on: October 02, 2021, 04:39:PM »
You are making me feel bad now QC!

When Adam submits his better version perhaps he can include why Bews ran back to the car?

What has Bews got to do with a Bamber scenario?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #324 on: October 02, 2021, 04:41:PM »
That's a complex question in its own right.  Clearly, he literally could have done because he could have just asked Sheila and she might have agreed, if she was in a mental state that disposed her to agree - especially if Jeremy was pointing a gun at her.

But can't you see the problems with that scenario?  You rely on the claim that Sheila was found immaculate.  How can this be?  Wouldn't Sheila have resisted at some point?  You will say she was sedated, but do you understand what the expression 'sedated' means in the medical and physio-pharmacological senses, or in reality?  It does not necessarily mean that she would be unable to defend herself.  You may say she would be confused and tired, but wouldn't that make it more difficult for Jeremy, not less?  How is it that Sheila had no blood on her feet when she was walking through a bloodied crime scene?

I could put dozens of questions to you.  We could go into a discussion about the Ismail and Vanezis evidence.  I think Ismail's evidence is wrong but Vanezis' evidence was correct.  The angles at which Sheila was shot seemed to indicate to me that the killer must be Jeremy, but on further reflection I realised that I had not taken into account the position Jeremy would need to be in to make the shots.  It's not just where Sheila was but also where Jeremy was, and his posture and so on.

This isn't simple!

You rely on the claim that Sheila was found immaculate.  How can this be?

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Agree with that. It must be Bamber.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Rob_

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #325 on: October 02, 2021, 04:44:PM »
What has Bews got to do with a Bamber scenario?

I am surprised you are asking Adam, Bews was in my scenario but you picked on trivial details instead.

Offline Adam

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #326 on: October 02, 2021, 04:45:PM »
I could put dozens of questions to you.

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You can indeed. At the end of the day, Bamber felt confident enough to get Sheila a few feet from her bed. Using force, persuasion. Or both.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest29835

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #327 on: October 02, 2021, 04:46:PM »
You rely on the claim that Sheila was found immaculate.  How can this be?

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Agree with that. It must be Bamber.

I'm glad I'm helping you out.  It's important to improve these scenarios over time.

Offline Adam

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #328 on: October 02, 2021, 04:46:PM »
I am surprised you are asking Adam, Bews was in my scenario but you picked on trivial details instead.

Bews was miles away as Bamber was cycling back.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #329 on: October 02, 2021, 04:46:PM »
One is usually clean after a shower ! Her hair had been damp too. Most of the evidence was washed away.