Author Topic: THE SILENCER SAGA  (Read 67971 times)

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Offline killingeve

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #600 on: February 18, 2022, 04:07:PM »
I mean DB not DRB. It is stated in the introduction of his taped interview with COLP. Full transcript available.

Oh ok.  Getting mixed up like the exhibit labels!

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #601 on: February 18, 2022, 04:10:PM »

If witness statements, COLP notes etc do not follow a similar format to the following then frankly they mean sfa. 

https://www.cheshire.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/images/cheshire/dashcam/dashcam-example-statement.pdf


You are assuming such practices 36 years ago followed this pro-forma. Maybe some 'looser' regime applied at that time and rigour was applied later, following legal issue problems.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #602 on: February 18, 2022, 04:15:PM »
Oh ok.  Getting mixed up like the exhibit labels!

I am not taking the bait. You know full well what I mean or  is it just a joke? Still working on your explanation to the riddle of the blue socks?

Offline killingeve

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #603 on: February 18, 2022, 05:01:PM »
You are assuming such practices 36 years ago followed this pro-forma. Maybe some 'looser' regime applied at that time and rigour was applied later, following legal issue problems.

Look at the date of the rule at the top of the statement.

Offline killingeve

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #604 on: February 18, 2022, 05:12:PM »
I am not taking the bait. You know full well what I mean or  is it just a joke? Still working on your explanation to the riddle of the blue socks?

I genuinely thought you were referring to DB.  That's why I asked about the police fed as it didn't make sense in connections with DB.  The riddle of the blue socks is too complicated  :'(

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #605 on: February 18, 2022, 05:38:PM »
Look at the date of the rule at the top of the statement.
It is a proforma for witness statements and identifies the appropriate legal statutes that it conforms to. People in their COLP interviews were not making witness statements but were being questioned to aid a police enquiry. What were the legal rules for such an undertaking or was it just a matter of helping police with their enquiries? I believe such enquiries are usually taken in the form of notes and if applicable people questioned may be asked subsequently to provide a witness statement to the effect of what they had said. Only if anything they said is  needed for legal purposes. If there were no legal issues forthcoming, say tampering with evidence or making false statements then no witness statements would be needed and we would just be left with the notes.

Perhaps ngb can offer advice on this aspect.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 05:40:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #606 on: February 18, 2022, 05:43:PM »
I genuinely thought you were referring to DB.  That's why I asked about the police fed as it didn't make sense in connections with DB.  The riddle of the blue socks is too complicated  :'(
I admit it is tricky. You can always read my posts and if still unsure what I am stating you can pm  me and I will explain. NGB said it was well argued by the way.

Offline killingeve

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #607 on: February 19, 2022, 02:51:PM »
FROM BUBO

Can I suggest we discuss the case and move well away from the immature behaviour that has recently been on display? IMO no one comes out of these spats without reputational damage. I am not a moderator but feel the forum has descended into a pit of vipers. Let’s keep it civil.

BLOOD WORKS
[/size]

I think this subject might be right up CC’s street.

I thought it might be useful to set out more clearly how I believe the SM came to have blood inside. I will set them out individually. I have already outlined my thinking on DB1 being found by DB on the day. It should be noted that this exhibit was on DB’s list, which was later headed N/R as outlined in the COLP DB interview. The COLP suggested this meant Not Required or Not Relevant. DB offered no explanation. I argue he was collecting items that were used or produced in the cover up otherwise they would have been assigned to other SOCO officers. Taff wanted them kept apart and I have set out the reasons for this before. The most important may have been a suspicion he held that it could have been contaminated by the TFG which might bring JB into the frame.

1 Sheila contaminated it by her actions.

This could have been caused by a nose bleed when adding or removing the SM blood drips on the SM or muzzle. Another possibility is that she had blood on her hand which transferred to the muzzle during handling. It is also possible some blood dripped onto the SM around the exit. It is also possible that SC ‘prodded dead victims putting blood on the muzzle.

2 The TFG unwittingly contaminated it.

If there was blood on the muzzle and maybe a small incursion into the barrel and they then fitted the SM to make at least one shot (say the first or second shot as outlined in evidence). The action would possibly cause minute particles/mist size droplets to be distributed on the baffle plates and inside the main SM’s barrel/bore as far as that noted in the evidence.

3 A deliberate action at the lab

They, MDF in particular, could have created a flake or they obtained it from the receptacle containing PV20 and blood. As noted by Taylor on his GER. (QC I believe this is another document dated 12/09/85). Since there is a distinct possibility that he swapped PV20 to help create the one-gun crime, the creation of a flake or a flake from the PV20 receptacle would hold no fear.

4 A mistake by MDF who test fired the rifle.

Though he says he did a pull through and found no blood he might have come to the conclusion that he had caused it when small quantities were found by testing for bloods. He may have test fired before the blood tests. A mistake by a ‘novice’? Any earlier contamination would be blasted into the SM. If he visually inspected, it before both the test fire and/or the pull through. It is unlikely he could see the blood because JH and PJL asserted that the blood was not visible to the naked eye.
This suggestion comes into play if 2 above is excluded.

I would suggest that you read this to engage with my thinking.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action\attach;topic=4779.0;attach=34386;image

It seems to me that in the initial stages the mixed group theory was a possibility. JH did not do the tests himself someone, initials ALB did the tests. JH presented on behalf of the FSS at trial.

Try reading this.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4779.0;attach=34390;image

and this

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4779.0;attach=34392;image

It could be argued that PJL’s first report was sent to the FSS. (It would have been seen as a matter of curtesy and professional behaviour) as well as presenting findings to the defence. JH said he needed two matching sources to confirm SC’s blood. Low and behold PJL’ s reasoning is undermined by the finding of a flake. This caused him to adjust his advice.

I have severe reservations about this as previously outlined. See this

SILENCER SAGA reply 2 Was there a flake of blood.

I have seen the McKenzie report which says the same. It is a pity I had not read this when first posting this suggestion.

The flake provided additional evidence to support an otherwise highly contestable finding from the SM bore and baffle plates. This is similar to JM’s testimony bolstering the SM evidence.

There many who say that these nuanced issues were used to mislead the Jury about the veracity of the blood evidence. The flake result was not easy to contest and could not be verified by a subsequent test because the all the flake was consumed in the original test. The testing method was called into question later.

The flake was not discovered by RC when he dismantled it and it is clear he was not seeking quick tests because he did not send it to the lab for another nine days. MF did not find the flake when according to some he dismantled it on 13/08/85, (some claim this is a lie and is connected to a forged HOLAB 5 form), was it him who found the flake? Did he dismantle it before passing it to JH and his team? In any case it would seem that neither RC or MF saw blood as would be the case, if it was invisible to the naked eye.

I do not know which if any of the four scenarios I favour but I feel it could be an amalgam of any 2 or 3 from the total. All these scenarios place blood on the muzzle and a strong likelihood that this fact resulted in stronger blood findings which were found on the female screw head. A condition that cannot occur in normal operating conditions. They (SM’s) are designed and built so as not to leak in this area.

I strongly agree with David1819’s take on the back spatter issue. For me the amount of material (blood) was very small indeed, some might say minute and there was no other material like bone or tissue which are characteristic elements of the phenomenon. The quantities were so small I cannot see how any deliberate attempt to introduce blood into the silencer could be achieved. It would be extremely difficult because the actor would have to apply such a small amount as that found in the testing. The flake is different in that making one would be more easily achieved.

While arguments such as this maybe wrong or right, there seems little possibility that this aspect will lead to a CCRC referral. The blood evidence is a dead end I am afraid.

I believe the CT should proceed with this case on the basis that it is a ‘frame up’ following a cover-up. A case could be constructed explaining the framing of JB as part of a whole new narrative, citing the lack of disclosure as a deliberate attempt to hide pertinent evidence and the mistakes that were made. The outcome of this behaviour eventually leading to the diabolical framing of an innocent man.

There is an interesting point in the Channel 5 programme and the killing of Billy Joe towards the end where a blood spatter specialist discusses the volume of blood that was present on Sion Jenkins. There were well over a hundred tiny spots in total but the volume total would be no greater than you would get from pricking you finger.

Offline killingeve

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #608 on: February 19, 2022, 03:20:PM »
FROM BUBO

Can I suggest we discuss the case and move well away from the immature behaviour that has recently been on display? IMO no one comes out of these spats without reputational damage. I am not a moderator but feel the forum has descended into a pit of vipers. Let’s keep it civil.

BLOOD WORKS
[/size]

I think this subject might be right up CC’s street.

I thought it might be useful to set out more clearly how I believe the SM came to have blood inside. I will set them out individually. I have already outlined my thinking on DB1 being found by DB on the day. It should be noted that this exhibit was on DB’s list, which was later headed N/R as outlined in the COLP DB interview. The COLP suggested this meant Not Required or Not Relevant. DB offered no explanation. I argue he was collecting items that were used or produced in the cover up otherwise they would have been assigned to other SOCO officers. Taff wanted them kept apart and I have set out the reasons for this before. The most important may have been a suspicion he held that it could have been contaminated by the TFG which might bring JB into the frame.

1 Sheila contaminated it by her actions.

This could have been caused by a nose bleed when adding or removing the SM blood drips on the SM or muzzle. Another possibility is that she had blood on her hand which transferred to the muzzle during handling. It is also possible some blood dripped onto the SM around the exit. It is also possible that SC ‘prodded dead victims putting blood on the muzzle.

2 The TFG unwittingly contaminated it.

If there was blood on the muzzle and maybe a small incursion into the barrel and they then fitted the SM to make at least one shot (say the first or second shot as outlined in evidence). The action would possibly cause minute particles/mist size droplets to be distributed on the baffle plates and inside the main SM’s barrel/bore as far as that noted in the evidence.

3 A deliberate action at the lab

They, MDF in particular, could have created a flake or they obtained it from the receptacle containing PV20 and blood. As noted by Taylor on his GER. (QC I believe this is another document dated 12/09/85). Since there is a distinct possibility that he swapped PV20 to help create the one-gun crime, the creation of a flake or a flake from the PV20 receptacle would hold no fear.

4 A mistake by MDF who test fired the rifle.

Though he says he did a pull through and found no blood he might have come to the conclusion that he had caused it when small quantities were found by testing for bloods. He may have test fired before the blood tests. A mistake by a ‘novice’? Any earlier contamination would be blasted into the SM. If he visually inspected, it before both the test fire and/or the pull through. It is unlikely he could see the blood because JH and PJL asserted that the blood was not visible to the naked eye.
This suggestion comes into play if 2 above is excluded.

I would suggest that you read this to engage with my thinking.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action\attach;topic=4779.0;attach=34386;image

It seems to me that in the initial stages the mixed group theory was a possibility. JH did not do the tests himself someone, initials ALB did the tests. JH presented on behalf of the FSS at trial.

Try reading this.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4779.0;attach=34390;image

and this

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4779.0;attach=34392;image

It could be argued that PJL’s first report was sent to the FSS. (It would have been seen as a matter of curtesy and professional behaviour) as well as presenting findings to the defence. JH said he needed two matching sources to confirm SC’s blood. Low and behold PJL’ s reasoning is undermined by the finding of a flake. This caused him to adjust his advice.

I have severe reservations about this as previously outlined. See this

SILENCER SAGA reply 2 Was there a flake of blood.

I have seen the McKenzie report which says the same. It is a pity I had not read this when first posting this suggestion.

The flake provided additional evidence to support an otherwise highly contestable finding from the SM bore and baffle plates. This is similar to JM’s testimony bolstering the SM evidence.

There many who say that these nuanced issues were used to mislead the Jury about the veracity of the blood evidence. The flake result was not easy to contest and could not be verified by a subsequent test because the all the flake was consumed in the original test. The testing method was called into question later.

The flake was not discovered by RC when he dismantled it and it is clear he was not seeking quick tests because he did not send it to the lab for another nine days. MF did not find the flake when according to some he dismantled it on 13/08/85, (some claim this is a lie and is connected to a forged HOLAB 5 form), was it him who found the flake? Did he dismantle it before passing it to JH and his team? In any case it would seem that neither RC or MF saw blood as would be the case, if it was invisible to the naked eye.

I do not know which if any of the four scenarios I favour but I feel it could be an amalgam of any 2 or 3 from the total. All these scenarios place blood on the muzzle and a strong likelihood that this fact resulted in stronger blood findings which were found on the female screw head. A condition that cannot occur in normal operating conditions. They (SM’s) are designed and built so as not to leak in this area.

I strongly agree with David1819’s take on the back spatter issue. For me the amount of material (blood) was very small indeed, some might say minute and there was no other material like bone or tissue which are characteristic elements of the phenomenon. The quantities were so small I cannot see how any deliberate attempt to introduce blood into the silencer could be achieved. It would be extremely difficult because the actor would have to apply such a small amount as that found in the testing. The flake is different in that making one would be more easily achieved.

While arguments such as this maybe wrong or right, there seems little possibility that this aspect will lead to a CCRC referral. The blood evidence is a dead end I am afraid.

I believe the CT should proceed with this case on the basis that it is a ‘frame up’ following a cover-up. A case could be constructed explaining the framing of JB as part of a whole new narrative, citing the lack of disclosure as a deliberate attempt to hide pertinent evidence and the mistakes that were made. The outcome of this behaviour eventually leading to the diabolical framing of an innocent man.

There is an interesting point in the Channel 5 programme and the killing of Billy Joe towards the end where a blood spatter specialist discusses the volume of blood that was present on Sion Jenkins. There were well over a hundred tiny spots in total but the volume total would be no greater than you would get from pricking you finger.


1.  According to FSS and Dr Lincoln's (for the defence) examination, evidence of blood was found as far down as far as the 8th baffle.  How would blood enter such a small aperture and present the way in which it did as far down as the 8th baffle from accidental contamination by Sheila?  Why would Sheila use the silencer and then replace it in a box/bag at the back of the cupboard?

2.  As far as I know the TFG did not carry out any test fires and even if they did how would dry blood end up presenting as claimed and as far down as the 8th baffle?

3.  There is absolutely no evidence that any shot was fired from any other firearm other than the Anshutz 525 rifle.  Why/how would the lab conspire?

4.  I'm not really sure what you mean in 4?  Malcolm Fletcher claims he carried out a pull-through on the rifle and found no trace of blood.  Glynnis Howard found traces of blood and the paint on the outside of the silencer, and just inside the opening, on 13th Aug which was long before Malcolm Fletcher was involved.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #609 on: February 20, 2022, 08:15:PM »
1.  According to FSS and Dr Lincoln's (for the defence) examination, evidence of blood was found as far down as far as the 8th baffle.  How would blood enter such a small aperture and present the way in which it did as far down as the 8th baffle from accidental contamination by Sheila?  Why would Sheila use the silencer and then replace it in a box/bag at the back of the cupboard?

2.  As far as I know the TFG did not carry out any test fires and even if they did how would dry blood end up presenting as claimed and as far down as the 8th baffle?

3.  There is absolutely no evidence that any shot was fired from any other firearm other than the Anshutz 525 rifle.  Why/how would the lab conspire?

4.  I'm not really sure what you mean in 4?  Malcolm Fletcher claims he carried out a pull-through on the rifle and found no trace of blood.  Glynnis Howard found traces of blood and the paint on the outside of the silencer, and just inside the opening, on 13th Aug which was long before Malcolm Fletcher was involved.

I do not believe it would be impossible for any wet blood to go as far as the 8th baffle. In the Sion Jenkins case a mere expulsion of the dead Billy J’s breath managed to spray the whole of the front of his fleece and his shoe with miniscule droplets. If there was a small amount of wet blood in or around the muzzle area the gasses forced through the barrel would be sufficient to cause a similar spray/mist effect over a distance of say 6 inches.

The TFG had to perform at least one test fire to obtain a replacement cartridge case for the round they fired at June. This was why when there were 30 rounds loose on the kitchen top MF only received 29. They held back the lone round that was still in its tray.

This casing DRH43 was missed and is said to have been found on 08/07/85 lodged at the base of the wardrobe on June’s side of the bed.

Of course there is no evidence that any other rifle being fired, it is under wraps. There is however some pretty strong evidence that PV20 was swapped for this very reason. MF did the swap IMO because the original had rifling marks consistent with the Brno. He could have incorrectly calibrated the scales or entered a wrong figure on the paperwork. I believe this was a deliberate act, not human error. If you read his paperwork the exact document escapes me and in it he says he could not say whether PV20 was fired from the rifle18 (The Anschutz). Was he covering himself?

Found it

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4019.0;attach=29505;image

Sheila did not replace the SM in the cupboard it was collected by David Bird at the crime scene on the day.

Sheila could have handled the SM and by some means contaminated the screw end. This would mean the muzzle was clean but the blood she transferred to the SM could have been blasted into the SM.

I believe though I cannot say with full confidence that small amounts of dried blood on the muzzle or just inside the barrel or indeed the screw thread, could also be blasted into the silencer as tiny fragments of dust.

This being the case if a test fire was performed using the silencer before the pull through. MF would have accidently contaminated the silencer. Since the blood was invisible to the naked eye he may not have regarded or anticipated that this was a potential problem. He could have claimed to have done the pull through to cover up this mistake.

Holly Goodhead often posted about his lack of expertise which was to have owned an air rifle when younger. He was said to be too incompetent to be dealing with the complicated ballistics element which was a major part of the case.

WARNING CONSPIRACY ALERT.

At the time of JB’s trial the Home secretary was Douglas Hurd. It was he who had ultimate responsibility for the issuing of PII certificates linked to this case. This same man imposed a whole life tariff on JB without consultation and without notifying JB.

At this time the FSS Huntingdon was run by the Home Office under the Home Secretary Douglas Hurd. Politicians tend to steer clear of involvement in legal matters as far as possible because Judges tend to give them short shrift for interfering with the judiciary but it cannot be ruled out that the Home Office was involved in other aspects of this case than those quoted above.

One of the problems of arguing for guilt is that things have changed since most of the documents you use as evidence, (I accept that they are) is that we have moved on. Although full disclosure is still to be made, more documents have trickled out or have been disclosed. Photography is unrecognisable from the Hasselblad and celluloid of the 1980’s. We no longer need the strength of a Tarzan to carry a large plastic brick on our shoulders to take videos.

It is possible from documentation released and technology as well as new forensics that a new and possibly (not probably) different set of evidence has emerged that is worthy of a submission to the CCRC. We await the outcome.

The original narrative which exists to this day was gifted to the police by the physical elements of the case in that they had complete control over what happened when the TFG went in and the detail of what they found. Any mistakes they may (not probably) have made could be hidden.

In most criminal cases and public events, the narrative is held by the police but only initially. Other witnesses to events can tell a different story about what they say happened and heard and their take on proceedings. The most important chunk in this case, is and always has been held by the police.

That is why access to the original four murders and  suicide case file is so important.

I do not say my narrative must be believed but right or wrong I do believe it is possible (not probable) that something akin to this happened. I can live in a dream world if that is what you think it is. I will remain the fantasist and conspiritard. you believe me to be.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2022, 10:35:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline lookout

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #610 on: February 20, 2022, 08:23:PM »
Oh ok.  Getting mixed up like the exhibit labels!






That's exactly what EP did ! Some items were even minus exhibit labels.

Offline lookout

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #611 on: February 20, 2022, 08:23:PM »





That's exactly what EP did ! Some items were even minus exhibit labels.





And signatures too !

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #612 on: February 21, 2022, 08:41:AM »
I do not believe it would be impossible for any wet blood to go as far as the 8th baffle. In the Sion Jenkins case a mere expulsion of the dead Billy J’s breath manged to spray the whole of the front of his fleece and his shoe with miniscule droplets. If there was a small amount of wet blood in or around the muzzle area the gasses forced through the barrel would be sufficient to cause a similar spray/mist effect over a distance of say 6 inches.

The TFG had to perform at least one test fire to obtain a replacement cartridge case for the round they fired at June. This was why when there were 30 rounds loose on the kitchen top MF only received 29. They held back the lone round that was still in its tray.

This casing DRH43 was missed and is said to have been found on 08/07/85 lodged at the base of the wardrobe on June’s side of the bed.

Of course there is no evidence that any other rifle being fired, it is under wraps. There is however some pretty strong evidence that PV20 was swapped for this very reason. MF did the swap IMO because the original had rifling marks consistent with the Brno. He could have incorrectly calibrated the scales or entered a wrong figure on the paperwork. I believe this was a deliberate act not human error. If you read his paperwork the exact document escapes me and in it he says he could not say whether PV20 was fired from the rifle18 (The Anschutz). Was he covering himself?

Found it

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4019.0;attach=29505;image

Sheila did not replace the SM in the cupboard it was collected by David Bird at the crime scene on the day.

Sheila could have handled the SM and by some means contaminated the screw end. This would mean the muzzle was clean but the blood she transferred to the SM could have been blasted into the SM.

I believe though I cannot say with full confidence that small amounts of dried blood on the muzzle or just inside the barrel or indeed the screw thread, could also be blasted into the silencer as tiny fragments of dust.

This being the case if a test fire was performed using the silencer before the pull through. MF would have accidently contaminated the silencer. Since the blood was invisible to the naked eye he may not have regarded or anticipated that this was a potential problem. He could have claimed to have done the pull through to cover up this mistake.

Holly Goodhead often posted about his lack of expertise which was to have owned an air rifle when younger. He was said to be too incompetent to be dealing with the complicated ballistics element which was a major part of the case.

WARNING CONSPIRACY ALERT.

At the time of JB’s trial the Home secretary was Douglas Hurd. It was he who had ultimate responsibility for the issuing of PII certificates linked to this case. This same man imposed a whole life tariff on JB without consultation and without notifying JB.

At this time the FSS Huntingdon was run by the Home Office under the Home Secretary Douglas Hurd. Politicians tend to steer clear of involvement in legal matters as far as possible because Judges tend to give them short shrift for interfering with the judiciary but it cannot be ruled out that the Home Office was involved in other aspects of this case than those quoted above.

One of the problems of arguing for guilt is that things have changed since most of the documents you use as evidence, (I accept that they are) is that we have moved on. Although full disclosure is still to be made, more documents have trickled out or have been disclosed. Photography is unrecognisable from the Hasselblad and celluloid of the 1980’s. We no longer need the strength of a Tarzan to carry a large plastic brick on our shoulders to take videos.

It is possible from documentation released and technology as well as new forensics that a new and possibly (not probably) different set of evidence has emerged that is worthy of a submission to the CCRC. We await the outcome.

The original narrative which exists to this day was gifted to the police by the physical elements of the case in that they had complete control over what happened when the TFG went in and the detail of what they found. Any mistakes they may (not probably) have made could be hidden.

In most criminal cases and public events, the narrative is held by the police but only initially. Other witnesses to events can tell a different story about what they say happened and heard and their take on proceedings. The most important chunk in this case, is and always has been held by the police.

That is why access to the original four murders and  suicide case file is so important.

I do not say my narrative must be believed but right or wrong I do believe it is possible (not probable) that something akin to this happened. I can live in a dream world if that is what you think it is. I will remain the fantasist and conspiritard. you believe me to be.
Does anyone really believe this scenario now?

Offline killingeve

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #613 on: February 21, 2022, 08:49:AM »
Does anyone really believe this scenario now?

Are you referring to the section you highlighted?

Offline killingeve

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #614 on: February 21, 2022, 09:47:AM »
I do not believe it would be impossible for any wet blood to go as far as the 8th baffle. In the Sion Jenkins case a mere expulsion of the dead Billy J’s breath manged to spray the whole of the front of his fleece and his shoe with miniscule droplets. If there was a small amount of wet blood in or around the muzzle area the gasses forced through the barrel would be sufficient to cause a similar spray/mist effect over a distance of say 6 inches.

The TFG had to perform at least one test fire to obtain a replacement cartridge case for the round they fired at June. This was why when there were 30 rounds loose on the kitchen top MF only received 29. They held back the lone round that was still in its tray.

This casing DRH43 was missed and is said to have been found on 08/07/85 lodged at the base of the wardrobe on June’s side of the bed.

Of course there is no evidence that any other rifle being fired, it is under wraps. There is however some pretty strong evidence that PV20 was swapped for this very reason. MF did the swap IMO because the original had rifling marks consistent with the Brno. He could have incorrectly calibrated the scales or entered a wrong figure on the paperwork. I believe this was a deliberate act not human error. If you read his paperwork the exact document escapes me and in it he says he could not say whether PV20 was fired from the rifle18 (The Anschutz). Was he covering himself?

Found it

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4019.0;attach=29505;image

Sheila did not replace the SM in the cupboard it was collected by David Bird at the crime scene on the day.

Sheila could have handled the SM and by some means contaminated the screw end. This would mean the muzzle was clean but the blood she transferred to the SM could have been blasted into the SM.

I believe though I cannot say with full confidence that small amounts of dried blood on the muzzle or just inside the barrel or indeed the screw thread, could also be blasted into the silencer as tiny fragments of dust.

This being the case if a test fire was performed using the silencer before the pull through. MF would have accidently contaminated the silencer. Since the blood was invisible to the naked eye he may not have regarded or anticipated that this was a potential problem. He could have claimed to have done the pull through to cover up this mistake.

Holly Goodhead often posted about his lack of expertise which was to have owned an air rifle when younger. He was said to be too incompetent to be dealing with the complicated ballistics element which was a major part of the case.

WARNING CONSPIRACY ALERT.

At the time of JB’s trial the Home secretary was Douglas Hurd. It was he who had ultimate responsibility for the issuing of PII certificates linked to this case. This same man imposed a whole life tariff on JB without consultation and without notifying JB.

At this time the FSS Huntingdon was run by the Home Office under the Home Secretary Douglas Hurd. Politicians tend to steer clear of involvement in legal matters as far as possible because Judges tend to give them short shrift for interfering with the judiciary but it cannot be ruled out that the Home Office was involved in other aspects of this case than those quoted above.

One of the problems of arguing for guilt is that things have changed since most of the documents you use as evidence, (I accept that they are) is that we have moved on. Although full disclosure is still to be made, more documents have trickled out or have been disclosed. Photography is unrecognisable from the Hasselblad and celluloid of the 1980’s. We no longer need the strength of a Tarzan to carry a large plastic brick on our shoulders to take videos.

It is possible from documentation released and technology as well as new forensics that a new and possibly (not probably) different set of evidence has emerged that is worthy of a submission to the CCRC. We await the outcome.

The original narrative which exists to this day was gifted to the police by the physical elements of the case in that they had complete control over what happened when the TFG went in and the detail of what they found. Any mistakes they may (not probably) have made could be hidden.

In most criminal cases and public events, the narrative is held by the police but only initially. Other witnesses to events can tell a different story about what they say happened and heard and their take on proceedings. The most important chunk in this case, is and always has been held by the police.

That is why access to the original four murders and  suicide case file is so important.

I do not say my narrative must be believed but right or wrong I do believe it is possible (not probable) that something akin to this happened. I can live in a dream world if that is what you think it is. I will remain the fantasist and conspiritard. you believe me to be.

The blood evidence in the two cases: SJ and JB are two completely different propositions.  In the SJ case its about blood being exhaled into the open atmosphere producing particles so fine they were not visible to the naked eye.  In JB's case its about blood entering a small aperture into a silencer from a contact gunshot wound which resulted in a blood flake measuring 1/2".  The blood in JB's case was not fine dust invisible to the naked eye as you describe.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TFG shot June.  This is off the richter scale madness.

The TFG didn't fire any shots.  29 cartridges were found on the work surface.  1 cartdrige was found in the box on the work surface.  Casing DH/43 was found underneath the wardrobe on 9th Aug.  No bullets were swapped.  The silencer was found by the relatives on 10th Aug along with all the other firearms and associated equipment eg ammunition, scope/sights. 

If you want to rewrite history you need all the parts to come together into a seamless narrative and I'm afriad they do not even resemble a poorly stiched patchwork!  I am sorry I do not wish to sound rude but your posts are all over the place and only seem to make sense to you. 

Now Douglas Hurd is part of the conspiracy  ::)