THE SILENCER SAGA

[mike tesko]

If DI Cook had seen anything on or in the silencer (paint, blood, hair) surely he would have left it alone and let the lab deal with it?

The fact he pulled the whole thing apart to me suggests he never saw anything out of the ordinary?

Please bear in mind, that 'nobody took photographs' of the 'top surfaces' of 'five or six baffle plates' of 'any silencer' [SBJ/1, DB/1, and or, DRB/1],and rather more significantly, none of the blood samples taken from specific baffle plates embedded on to the silencers metal [internalised] baffle plates, on the '12th, 13th, 18th, and 19th September 1985, were' not' given' exhibit reference numbers'. This to me, is 'rather alarming'...

With this in mind, 'should the blood group evidence' have even been 'admissable' as 'reliable evidence' , 'during the trial'?

[mike tesko]

With this in mind, 'should the blood group evidence' have even been 'admissable' as 'reliable evidence' , 'during the trial'?

According to this 'faked evidence' all blood samples that were found or detected on baffle plates, were 'tested to destruction'. This surely has to be 'unacceptable', since, 'the defence experts' were 'unable to carry out their own tests' on any of 'those blood samples'...

In the absence of 'any blood samples' to be 'retested' and 'no blood existing at the time of the trial' the 'prosecution' and 'its ballistic' and or 'blood experts' could simply have 'invented' the 'blood group evidence', with 'no opportunity' for 'the defence' and 'its expert' , to 'investigate' or 'to challenge'. In effect, the alleged 'finding' , 'detection' , of 'blood group evidence' inside 'one of three different silencers'[SBJ/1, DB/1, DRB/1] might 'not have ever existed'..

Additionally, despite the groteque period of time since anyone [someone] initially finding or detecting blood on baffle plates to whichever silencer, it has not been ascertained which key prosecution witness, was the very person [or, perhaps, `people`] who first set eyes, and discovered the blood distributed, as it was on several internal top surfaces of half a dozen [internal] or so, baffle plates...

Why has'nt the identity of the person, or persons, responsible for discovering the blood, and the analysing of it?

[Rob_]

Gosh you really do your homework!

The blood in / on the silencer is critical to the case as without it JB would not even have been charged in the first place. It was this that turned the investigation on its head and the whole silencer thing is looking extremely unreliable.

I cannot find much info on back spatter, with a .22 looks like back spatter would be minimal (as its related to velocity and size of the bullet), unless a contact shot to the head or a artery was hit?

[David1819]

DB is a magician. According the statement dated 24/10/85, the one we have. He collected the blue socks. How did he manage this 33 days after the event and about 28 days after JB had burnt his parents clothes? I would like to see his pocket book. I would like to see if there are  entries on his second, most likely forged statement. I would like to see if he has listed these items in his Pocket book. If he has not then what is so special about the soil sample that he had to record it twice.

Well I could post it up here (if nobody else will). But what is the point if this is the kind of feedback I get ?

For Christ's sake FO. You are a misleading bastard. She did not know how far in she swabbed. It is widely known that it could also have been rabbit blood. You are an utter disgrace and like many others I would be glad to see the back of you. Go and join the other Troll (Adam) under the rickety rackety bridge.

[Bubo bubo]

Well I could post it up here (if nobody else will). But what is the point if this is the kind of feedback I get ?

I have placed you and Adam on ignore.

[Rob_]

Bubo in your early posts on this thread you said that you believed a silencer was used on the night, I would be interested to know why you think this?

Also do we know the size of the flake of blood? from what I have read about back spatter the blood would be fairly small spray like particles? I would not expect one large flake?

[mike tesko]

When 'the' silencer was first test fired, all 'the live rounds' fired through 'it' were 'damaged excessively' - how could '12 whole crime scene bullets' have been fired 'without getting any damage' at all during 'the shootings of victims' of the 'whitehouse farm tragedy'?

[Bubo bubo]

Bubo in your early posts on this thread you said that you believed a silencer was used on the night, I would be interested to know why you think this?

If they shot June as per my narrative they would have had to shoot her at least one more time, since she could not have survived the initial between the eyes shot. This was done as a means to disguise the original shot. A lot depends on the bullet wounds not just to June but the other victims. In recreating the crime scene and the story they wished to tell they may have needed to make additional wounds to victims,(see my speculation which urges caution). If it was only one or perhaps more the silencer might help ensure that persons outside the building might not hear the noise. We cannot know this but it would be a plausible explanation.

Then there is the possibility that SC tried to use it either by attaching it or because it was already attached. I am sure she had seen enough films to know how to screw it on. Maybe when she ran out of amo and  she thought it was a SM malfunction and removed it. Maybe she found it made the gun more difficult to handle. Maybe she found she could not commit suicide with it on and so removed it and it was found close by.

[Bubo bubo]

Also do we know the size of the flake of blood? from what I have read about back spatter the blood would be fairly small spray like particles? I would not expect one large flake?

I have no idea of the size though I have seen it described. It might be in JH's statements, testimony, or information from one of the many subsequent enquiries. It was small from memory and 1/8th of an inch rings a bell but I could be wrong.

And do not forget that it may never have existed but was created on paper as part of the framing.

[Rob_]

Thanks for that I have read all your posts, but I was wondering if you had seen something on the victims
 wounds that supported a silencer was being used?

There was a post a while back saying that there was quite a lot of blood in the silencer? but if true this could only have come from a contact head shot? not back spatter?

[Steve_uk]

Thanks for that I have read all your posts, but I was wondering if you had seen something on the victims
 wounds that supported a silencer was being used?

There was a post a while back saying that there was quite a lot of blood in the silencer? but if true this could only have come from a contact head shot? not back spatter?

Please read the paragraph beginning: Silencer mark around non fatal neck wound (from the Andrew Hunter Book Draft).

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2441.msg75053/topicseen.html#msg75053

[Rob_]

Please read the paragraph beginning: Silencer mark around non fatal neck wound (from the Andrew Hunter Book Draft).

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2441.msg75053/topicseen.html#msg75053

Thanks very interesting! especially for me being new on here, lots of info in one place.

[mike tesko]

When 'the' silencer was first test fired, all 'the live rounds' fired through 'it' were 'damaged excessively' - how could '12 whole crime scene bullets' have been fired 'without getting any damage' at all during 'the shootings of victims' of the 'whitehouse farm tragedy'?

During enquiries carried out by 'Smith' and 'Mallinson' they confirmed that there had been contact between the end of a silencer and 'the surface of the  skin' around the so called 'non fatal' neck wound. However, it was not possible to determine, whether or not, the 'non fatal' neck wound had been inflicted prior to 'the fatal bullet entry wound' or 'not'...

It begs consideration, for the 'none fatal' shot to have been inflicted downstairs in the main kitchen, with a silencer fitted on to the end of a. 22 rifles barrel.

It must follow, therefore, that 'Sheila' was, shot and killed upstairs on the main bedroom floor, without any involvement of 'Jeremy Bamber'. This is because the bodies of 'one dead femal, and a dead male, had been found upon entry to tge kitchen by firearm officers from 7.37am [onwards]. It is rather compelling, that no police officer questioned, or resolved the graphic content of these / those timed police radio communication logs, for someone [anyone] to clarify, and put right during any further part of tge pokice investion. In particular, timed police radio contact messages, timed at 7.37am, 7.38am and 7.42am, followed by confirmation in a police message [timed at 8.10am] that a further tgree dead bodies had been / were found in bedrooms upstairs!

[David1819]

Thanks for that I have read all your posts, but I was wondering if you had seen something on the victims
 wounds that supported a silencer was being used?

There was a post a while back saying that there was quite a lot of blood in the silencer? but if true this could only have come from a contact head shot? not back spatter?

Nicholas Caffell suffered two contact shots. Had the silencer been used, one would expect to find bone fragments and "organic debris" (such as brain tissue?) and DNA inside the moderator. Yet there is none.

"Test shots on live pigs destined for slaughter showed that bone particles are a feature of backspatter from close-range shots to heads. Contamination of nearby surfaces by bone fragments and bone-plus-bullet fragments, as well as other organic debris, appears to be quite heavy."
"Detection of Bone and Bone-Plus-Bullet Particles in Backspatter from Close-Range Shots to Heads," Journal of Forensic Sciences, Vol. 36, No. 6, 1991, pp. 1745-1752,

[Adam]

Nicholas Caffell suffered two contact shots. Had the silencer been used, one would expect to find bone fragments and "organic debris" (such as brain tissue?) and DNA inside the moderator. Yet there is none.

"Test shots on live pigs destined for slaughter showed that bone particles are a feature of backspatter from close-range shots to heads. Contamination of nearby surfaces by bone fragments and bone-plus-bullet fragments, as well as other organic debris, appears to be quite heavy."
"Detection of Bone and Bone-Plus-Bullet Particles in Backspatter from Close-Range Shots to Heads," Journal of Forensic Sciences, Vol. 36, No. 6, 1991, pp. 1745-1752,

Bone spatter 😃

The rifle was used for shooting rabbits. It was barely powerful enough to produce back spatter from Sheila's two contact shots. Which were in an area of high flow.