Julie Mugford - the (lying) Criminal, exposed...

[mike tesko]

When JM went to the police she also revealed
          Her and JB's involvement with the Caravan site robbery
          Her involvement with JB's cannabis deals
          Her involvement in a £800 cheque fraud with her friend.

Hardly painting herself as Mother Teresa.

--------------------------------------------------

No, but paving the way for her not to be charged so that she could give evidence on behalf of the prosecutions case...

[mb1]

When JM went to the police she also revealed
          Her and JB's involvement with the Caravan site robbery
          Her involvement with JB's cannabis deals
          Her involvement in a £800 cheque fraud with her friend.

Hardly painting herself as Mother Teresa.

--------------------------------------------------

No, but paving the way for her not to be charged so that she could give evidence on behalf of the prosecutions case...

But the police didn't know about her involvement before she mentioned it. So she wasn't trading...

[Jackiepreece]

I am obviously not making myself clear but I believe jb is innocent

Now Julie mugford can only be one of these two things

(1) she made the whole thing up because she was jealous about Jeremy and put an innocent man in prison for the rest of his life

(2) jb told her weeks before the murders he wanted to kill his whole family (maybe at that time she might have thought he was joking) the day of the murders jb told her tonights the night (and she would have probably known the whole family were at whf) she was with Jeremy after the murders obviously knowing he has carried out the murders from his comments the day before. Was quite happy with the murder was not sealed off as the police thought it was suicide (that's called perverting the course of justice) attended the funerals, 2 holidays (all this time knowing he was responsible after the tonights the night comment


It's too far fetched I do not believe Jeremy told her about the murders if he had killed all his family he might kill her next

My believe what I personally believe she made the whole thing up and the police went with story couldn't believe their luck helped swing the balance of a weak case with no decent forensics left because the murder site previously believed suicide. I will never accept that Julie mugford would be allowed to work with children because of her involvement after the murders. I think the police would have been more than grateful to organise her new life in Canada which made their job incredibly easy solving this mass murder / suicide?

Why not run a poll on here and ask any women if they would stay with someone after they had carried out a mass murder including two children let alone go on holiday with him

You will not find one

It never happened

Can everyone just use some commonsense girls don't like mass murderers

She was a nasty jealous liar.  Poor jb

[shonapugs]

I think that I must have Horseydave's bit between my teeth, because I'm starting to feel like we're all in an episode of the Twilight Zone. As I've already posted, there is very little tangible evidence left, but lots of wild supposition, conspiracy theories, gut reactions and tons of conflicting facts. And I've asked this question twice before - why did the murderer return to shoot the children again, when the initial shots to their temples obviously kill them immediately?

[Jackiepreece]

Perhaps because it was Sheila and she obviously would not really understand what she was doing that night.  If it was her she must have been in a desperate state poor thing

[shonapugs]

Jackie, I really do understand where you're coming from, but having seen the pictures of her body, do you think that she could have "rampaged" through the house, naked except for her nightdress, and wrestled with Ralph? So much of this doesn't add up. I came to this forum with an open mind, I'm the same age as Jeremy and remember the case very well, but now I have come to the conclusion that someone much bigger, stronger and more organised that Sheila murdered the family that night.

[mb1]

I think that I must have Horseydave's bit between my teeth, because I'm starting to feel like we're all in an episode of the Twilight Zone. As I've already posted, there is very little tangible evidence left, but lots of wild supposition, conspiracy theories, gut reactions and tons of conflicting facts. And I've asked this question twice before - why did the murderer return to shoot the children again, when the initial shots to their temples obviously kill them immediately?

Because they had to be absolutely sure everyone was dead?

Because they thought others would associate 'overkill' with 'madness'?

Jackie, I really do understand where you're coming from, but having seen the pictures of her body, do you think that she could have "rampaged" through the house, naked except for her nightdress, and wrestled with Ralph? So much of this doesn't add up. I came to this forum with an open mind, I'm the same age as Jeremy and remember the case very well, but now I have come to the conclusion that someone much bigger, stronger and more organised that Sheila murdered the family that night.

Been thinking of this, following the other thread.
My Father may be 70, but he's in very good health, and Neville's stature. Those first couple of shots would have to be really good and involve large blood loss. Without that, I think he'd wrestle the gun from most women,  I really do. And, in a battle for his life, he would certainly injure them, woman/daughter or not.

[shonapugs]

I think so,too. Ralph was a big bloke, and also knew how to placate Sheila under normal circumstances. How can the barrel marks on the back of his neck be explained? The 6 million dollar question is - who called the police? I know that this has been discussed many times before, but if Jeremy commited the murders on his own, surely he would have left the scene to be discovered by a member of staff the next morning? I've said this before, but the more I learn, the less I understand. And Jackie, if you're still out there, can you tell me why you think that Jeremy is innocent?

[Jackiepreece]

Why were the police quite happy with everything as a suicide until the relatives and jm got involved if you are right and someone involved must have some expertise to be sure Sheila carried out the murders and they certainly would not have started burning evidence.

I am quite small but can control a very large horse and if I really lost my mind I think I could cause some serious damage

If you are swinging the blame back to jb it has got to be someone seriously mad to carry out those type of murders.  I have seen plenty about him being this arrogant rich kid but not too much about him being this mad psycho that you could imagine killing his whole family and I have read lots about people who know him from prison.  I even thought maybe the govener of the prison thinks he is innocent because I think it was up to him to let the test go ahead why help.  Then there was an article in the times I think where the paper said he got favourable treatment in prison would they do that if they thought he was guilty.

I am trying to look at everything to get a fair opinion what I feel about jb because at this moment nobody has absolute proof of guilt and innocence

But I do know from what I have read I would definitely have gone not guilty on the basis of beyond reasonable doubt

[mb1]

I think so,too. Ralph was a big bloke, and also knew how to placate Sheila under normal circumstances. How can the barrel marks on the back of his neck be explained? The 6 million dollar question is - who called the police? I know that this has been discussed many times before, but if Jeremy commited the murders on his own, surely he would have left the scene to be discovered by a member of staff the next morning? I've said this before, but the more I learn, the less I understand. And Jackie, if you're still out there, can you tell me why you think that Jeremy is innocent?

I think Kaldin has proved there was 1 phone call to the police.

Some of us read what was implied by JB's phone:
          JB at home not WHF
          Current situation at WHF - everyone alive
          If anything happens, Sheila's to blame (has gun and is mentally ill)
JB's phone call simultaneously provides an alibi and points the finger.
If a charade, it was very clever, very cunning.

If the police had been called the following morning by staff etc, they would have gone in cold, without preconceptions, They would have followed the evidence instead of the (phone call) suggestion of suicide/murder. Likelihood is that they would have made a more thorough investigation thinking they might be trying to find a murderer. Instead, they were slipshod, thinking there was little to prove as the murderer was in a body bag.
 

[simong]

If you are swinging the blame back to jb it has got to be someone seriously mad to carry out those type of murders.   

Morning Jackie, You see i would say the opposite that this is someone who is reasonably controlled. Even if there were 50 shell casings they have a 50% strike rate. This is someone who has hit the target with nearly if not every shot they have fired. If this is Sheila and she has hit someone with nearly every shot why did she need 2 shots to kill herself.

Shonapugs, I don't think the kids were shot with 1 bullet and then returned to. The post mortem on Daniel at the 2002 appeal says '5 shots to the head in an arc in quick succession'

[Jackiepreece]

So is everyone of the opinion Sheila was not physically capable of the killings and the police messed up with the investigation.  You also said about the shot success rate but wouldn't that be the case because of the close range

[simong]

I am sure she is physically capable of the killings but i do think it is highly unlikely. The injuries to Nevill are pretty horrific. I don't think there was a struggle, i think he tried but got battered before he could.

Surely someone going nuts would be firing on entering a room not at close range. Ask yourself , JB has said his father called him saying Sheila is going beserk with one of his guns. At what point would he have called JB? When she started loading it? After she had shot him and June? or after she shot her twin boys? She obviously has possession of the weapon and is using it before he makes the call. So, at what point? The whole phonecall thing is completely nonsensical in my opinion.

[Jackiepreece]

I see your point also

[Kaldin]

I am sure she is physically capable of the killings but i do think it is highly unlikely. The injuries to Nevill are pretty horrific. I don't think there was a struggle, i think he tried but got battered before he could.

Surely someone going nuts would be firing on entering a room not at close range. Ask yourself , JB has said his father called him saying Sheila is going beserk with one of his guns. At what point would he have called JB? When she started loading it? After she had shot him and June? or after she shot her twin boys? She obviously has possession of the weapon and is using it before he makes the call. So, at what point? The whole phonecall thing is completely nonsensical in my opinion.

I think she would have been mentally and physically capable of it, but some things don't add up. If that fight with Neville happened before he was shot at all, maybe there wouldn't be signs of it, but then I would expect Neville to have been able to overpower her. If he had been shot before it happened I would at least expect his blood to be on her.