Julie Mugford - the (lying) Criminal, exposed...

[Kaldin]

if nevill did make that phone call "come quickly, sheila has gone crazy and has got the gun" she may not have fired the gun at all at this stage (if it was sheila), but she may have attacked him with it, struck him with it, before firing any bullets. I think that had neville been shot at this stage he would have said so when he made that telephone call.

I agree, plus I don't think he'd hang about phoning Jeremy if she'd just shot him and/or June and the boys.

[bb2010]

Bearing in mind that Ralph said that Sheila had already got the gun, and that we assume it was loaded, I find it hard to reconcile that the close quarters combat then takes place (the battle whereby Ralph gets battered and Sheila hardly gets scratched). Regardless of my view on that, however late the last phonecall to the outside world purportedly was, the timescale for the fight, the reloading, the shootings (in whatever order) become tight before the police arrive at around ten to four. 

[mb1]

if nevill did make that phone call "come quickly, sheila has gone crazy and has got the gun" she may not have fired the gun at all at this stage (if it was sheila), but she may have attacked him with it, struck him with it, before firing any bullets. I think that had neville been shot at this stage he would have said so when he made that telephone call.

I agree, plus I don't think he'd hang about phoning Jeremy if she'd just shot him and/or June and the boys.

If we take Sarann's idea further, Nevill would presumably then have the gun, as he's controlled the situation sufficiently to phone. So Sheila has to remove it from him...

Plus, if the damage had been done to his face, the expert said Nevill wouldn't not have been able to speak clearly - broken jaw, larynx damage etc

So it's either no damage to his face pre-phone call
or
no phone call

[Kaldin]

if nevill did make that phone call "come quickly, sheila has gone crazy and has got the gun" she may not have fired the gun at all at this stage (if it was sheila), but she may have attacked him with it, struck him with it, before firing any bullets. I think that had neville been shot at this stage he would have said so when he made that telephone call.

I agree, plus I don't think he'd hang about phoning Jeremy if she'd just shot him and/or June and the boys.

If we take Sarann's idea further, Nevill would presumably then have the gun, as he's controlled the situation sufficiently to phone. So Sheila has to remove it from him...

Plus, if the damage had been done to his face, the expert said Nevill wouldn't not have been able to speak clearly - broken jaw, larynx damage etc

So it's either no damage to his face pre-phone call
or
no phone call

Agreed. The prosecution said he was shot in the bedroom and that he couldn't have spoken after that.

[andrea]

the police, after the case got intouch with the german manufacturers of the rifle, and they saif to their knowledge that loading the gun shouldnt have been difficult, even loading the last bullet shouldnt have posed a problem and indeed no problem of that kind hadnt been reported to them by any one who purchased that particular model.

[simong]

the police, after the case got intouch with the german manufacturers of the rifle, and they saif to their knowledge that loading the gun shouldnt have been difficult, even loading the last bullet shouldnt have posed a problem and indeed no problem of that kind hadnt been reported to them by any one who purchased that particular model.

 2002 Appeal....

69. The rifle was a German made Anschutz model 525 .22 self-loading rifle in good working order. Cartridges are loaded into a magazine, which has a capacity of 10. It is, as the jury found when they conducted the exercise themselves, progressively harder to load as the number of cartridges increases. Loading the tenth is exceptionally hard. Assuming a full capacity at the commencement of the shooting at the farm, the discharge of the rifle twenty-five times would require it to be re-loaded a minimum of two more times


Not sure how experienced the jury were with guns but maybe it is easier if you had had experience of loading it previously.

[Jackiepreece]

Thankyou Kaldin for that and mb1 I wonder when Maxine Carr is going back to her little teaching assistant job because what she wasn't too bad was it !!!!!!
Don't compare petty crime with mass murder and was jb involved in the cheque book fraud


For Julie mugford crime certainly did pay it bought her a flat and while we are on the subject Julie mugfords dad said in an  interview around the time of the 2002  appeal  said he was disgusted jb was allowed to appeal and said jb  should stay in prison for the rest of his life.

Julie mugford great daughter he must be so proud

[mike tesko]

Thankyou Kaldin for that and mb1 I wonder when Maxine Carr is going back to her little teaching assistant job because what she wasn't too bad was it !!!!!!
Don't compare petty crime with mass murder and was jb involved in the cheque book fraud


For Julie mugford crime certainly did pay it bought her a flat and while we are on the subject Julie mugfords dad said in an  interview around the time of the 2002  appeal  said he was disgusted jb was allowed to appeal and said jb  should stay in prison for the rest of his life.

Julie mugford great daughter he must be so proud

-------------------------------------------------------

It took many visits by Essex police (mainly by DS Jones) to prepare, Juile Mugford, for giving evidence at the time of trial - she was interviewed, and spoken to, by the police about 30 times or more - ample time for her to learn, and to be advised,  what needed to be said, so that she could appear to be convincing...

[chochokeira]

I don't think it's unnatural to be upset one minute and then composed the next. That would depend on the questions. Remember that the prosecution would be much more gentle with her than the defence.

If Julie had made up the story though, it would take a will of iron to stick to it throughout a lot of interviews, and tell the same story in court.

Why would she say Matthew MacDonald had done it if he didn't? Why not just say that Jeremy did it?

Which is why she needed many hours of coaching: i.e. 34 rehearsals?

[Bambergate]

hi mike
I have spoken to one of the officers on the case last week during the conservation he made a statement that she was not given any choice of staying around after the trial he said that the choice was either that of be convicted with Jeremy too.he said how could she refuse with cheque thing and the park break in also being used to help make up her mind.
I quote his words "she was more afraid of Essex police than of bamber"
He also made comments about the evidence being destroyed,he gave me a web address of a local fingerprint specialist in colchester and,it seemed to add up what he was saying.
i am still looking for peter Woodcocks address if you know where he is it would help.
Most of the officers I have contacted are not too happy to be found,but I think its time to decide which side of the fence they want to be on.it is either Jeremy who  is Evil beyond belief for killing his family or the people who have kept quiet while a innocent man gets convicted,i do not see any middle ground.
I see it as the simplest way to sort this out, as we are sure that it is not only that Jeremy knows the truth but also the police officers that entered the farm that morning.
The officer alsomade me aware that some of those guys do read this forum
come on lets all dig up the past

[chochokeira]

hi mike
I have spoken to one of the officers on the case last week during the conservation he made a statement that she was not given any choice of staying around after the trial he said that the choice was either that of be convicted with Jeremy too.he said how could she refuse with cheque thing and the park break in also being used to help make up her mind.
I quote his words "she was more afraid of Essex police than of bamber"
He also made comments about the evidence being destroyed,he gave me a web address of a local fingerprint specialist in colchester and,it seemed to add up what he was saying.
i am still looking for peter Woodcocks address if you know where he is it would help.
Most of the officers I have contacted are not too happy to be found,but I think its time to decide which side of the fence they want to be on.it is either Jeremy who  is Evil beyond belief for killing his family or the people who have kept quiet while a innocent man gets convicted,i do not see any middle ground.
I see it as the simplest way to sort this out, as we are sure that it is not only that Jeremy knows the truth but also the police officers that entered the farm that morning.
The officer alsomade me aware that some of those guys do read this forum
come on lets all dig up the past

Good points, Ron +1

[chochokeira]

"i am still looking for peter Woodcocks address if you know where he is it would help."   (Ron Cook)

Do you have any information about where he might be?

[Kaldin]

hi mike
I have spoken to one of the officers on the case last week during the conservation he made a statement that she was not given any choice of staying around after the trial he said that the choice was either that of be convicted with Jeremy too.he said how could she refuse with cheque thing and the park break in also being used to help make up her mind.
I quote his words "she was more afraid of Essex police than of bamber"
He also made comments about the evidence being destroyed,he gave me a web address of a local fingerprint specialist in colchester and,it seemed to add up what he was saying.
i am still looking for peter Woodcocks address if you know where he is it would help.
Most of the officers I have contacted are not too happy to be found,but I think its time to decide which side of the fence they want to be on.it is either Jeremy who  is Evil beyond belief for killing his family or the people who have kept quiet while a innocent man gets convicted,i do not see any middle ground.
I see it as the simplest way to sort this out, as we are sure that it is not only that Jeremy knows the truth but also the police officers that entered the farm that morning.
The officer alsomade me aware that some of those guys do read this forum
come on lets all dig up the past

Afternoon Mr Cook. I have no idea if you're for real or not. I suspect not, but never mind, you make some interesting points. 

Re Julie Mugford, you think there was a possibility she might have been charged? Would that be for the burglary, the cheque book fraud, perverting the course of justice, or accessory to murder?

[chochokeira]

hi mike
I have spoken to one of the officers on the case last week during the conservation he made a statement that she was not given any choice of staying around after the trial he said that the choice was either that of be convicted with Jeremy too.he said how could she refuse with cheque thing and the park break in also being used to help make up her mind.
I quote his words "she was more afraid of Essex police than of bamber"
He also made comments about the evidence being destroyed,he gave me a web address of a local fingerprint specialist in colchester and,it seemed to add up what he was saying.
i am still looking for peter Woodcocks address if you know where he is it would help.
Most of the officers I have contacted are not too happy to be found,but I think its time to decide which side of the fence they want to be on.it is either Jeremy who  is Evil beyond belief for killing his family or the people who have kept quiet while a innocent man gets convicted,i do not see any middle ground.
I see it as the simplest way to sort this out, as we are sure that it is not only that Jeremy knows the truth but also the police officers that entered the farm that morning.
The officer alsomade me aware that some of those guys do read this forum
come on lets all dig up the past

One of the many issues I have with JM's evidence: she claimed to be afraid of JB because she knew that he was the murder. So what does she do?

She tries to smother the dangerous serial murderer she fears with a pillow!

Hands up anyone who would have taken that risk.

[chochokeira]

hi mike
I have spoken to one of the officers on the case last week during the conservation he made a statement that she was not given any choice of staying around after the trial he said that the choice was either that of be convicted with Jeremy too.he said how could she refuse with cheque thing and the park break in also being used to help make up her mind.
I quote his words "she was more afraid of Essex police than of bamber"
He also made comments about the evidence being destroyed,he gave me a web address of a local fingerprint specialist in colchester and,it seemed to add up what he was saying.
i am still looking for peter Woodcocks address if you know where he is it would help.
Most of the officers I have contacted are not too happy to be found,but I think its time to decide which side of the fence they want to be on.it is either Jeremy who  is Evil beyond belief for killing his family or the people who have kept quiet while a innocent man gets convicted,i do not see any middle ground.
I see it as the simplest way to sort this out, as we are sure that it is not only that Jeremy knows the truth but also the police officers that entered the farm that morning.
The officer alsomade me aware that some of those guys do read this forum
come on lets all dig up the past

Afternoon Mr Cook. I have no idea if you're for real or not. I suspect not, but never mind, you make some interesting points. 

Re Julie Mugford, you think there was a possibility she might have been charged? Would that be for the burglary, the cheque book fraud, perverting the course of justice, or accessory to murder?

Why do you think he's not real, Kaldin?